Getting levelled in 3 bet pots

[Daddy Warbucks]

FWIW, i snap call here with TT+

[donkeykong2]

so say your range is polarized to like 99-aa, ak,aq or sth you just have to call with the pairs and fold ak,aq here.

[Fonkey123]

If he's calling 3 bets then checkraising a lot of flops with all kinds of suited connectors, and any pair, then why are you even cbetting here if you're not bet/calling?

I just think you're overestimating the amount of times a tag does this though. My vpip is sometimes double this dudes, and I don't even do this often.

edit: in any case you're range here is larger and hence less polarized than his, and this isn't even debatable unless he is the craziest losingest tag of all time and you're the nittiest 3bettor ever

[Daddy Warbucks]

a)because air makes up a very small % of his bluff pushing range, and he flops air a lot
b)I'd never check the flop here with an overpair, and it also lets him take it away from me on the turn the vast majority of the time.
c)this is BoB, which i think alters the dynamic drastically.

[ QUOTE ]
I just think you're overestimating the amount of times a tag does this though. My vpip is sometimes double this dudes, and I don't even do this often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take huge issue with this in general, but people quote vpip/pfr far too often when really they say nothing about post flop tendencies. I'm also fairly certain you're American so you don't play in these games, but maybe somebody like FoldEqu1ty or sh58 can weigh in on the number of people on Party with similar stats who play a lot of 3 bet pots and are VERY capable of making these type of moves. The games on party are so hugely different than any other site right now, there is a ton of 3 and 4 betting going on preflop, and with that the postflop game has evolved.

[sixhigh]

You need like 38% equity to make the call.

I could think of the following range for him: TT+ for the pairs, Sets, AK/AQ for the bluff, 76s for the semibluff. Against this range you have 40% equity.

But obviously the range is pretty much tilted towards bluffing type hands (AK/AQ/76 make up like 40% of this range). But anyway, with your datamined 'reads' a call might not be bad at all.

And against a decent aggressive player a check on this flop is superior imo. You might try to check those flops with big overpairs too every once in a while.

[Paul Thomson]

check behind flop all day especially against this player. but i don't think many players are folding middle pair on this board anyways.

[Fonkey123]

[ QUOTE ]
a)because air makes up a very small % of his bluff pushing range, and he flops air a lot
b)I'd never check the flop here with an overpair, and it also lets him take it away from me on the turn the vast majority of the time.
c)this is BoB, which i think alters the dynamic drastically.

[ QUOTE ]
I just think you're overestimating the amount of times a tag does this though. My vpip is sometimes double this dudes, and I don't even do this often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take huge issue with this in general, but people quote vpip/pfr far too often when really they say nothing about post flop tendencies. I'm also fairly certain you're American so you don't play in these games, but maybe somebody like FoldEqu1ty or sh58 can weigh in on the number of people on Party with similar stats who play a lot of 3 bet pots and are VERY capable of making these type of moves. The games on party are so hugely different than any other site right now, there is a ton of 3 and 4 betting going on preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's out of the small blind, so I imagine his PFR is around his average of 16% of hands. Download pokerstove and look at how much trash there is in a lot of that range. I can't even fathom him calling a 3 bet with any repetition whatsoever with more than maybe top 6-7% of the range. Then after he calls with this severely restricted range I again can't fathom him c/r'ing more than 60% of the time. If he's doing something more often he'd probably be broke within days.

a)because air makes up a very small % of his bluff pushing range

What? So you're saying he simultaneously calls a sick amount of 3 bets then check raises the flop all the time but he rarely has air? So he either check/folds a lot or check/calls the flop with air intending to take it away later? wtf??!!

He must have a jamie gold sized luckbox then.

[BGnight]

I'd check behind here w/ AA,KK vs this villian as long as I had a diamond. I love letting these overaggro monkeys hang themselves.

[Paul Thomson]

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His range is a lot wider than big pairs and AK. Its my range thats probably polarised.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do u mean by this. I thought u meant his range his polarized?

Do u mean u 3-bet your weak and strong hands and call with your mediocre hands like 88-TT?

[Fonkey123]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check behind here w/ AA,KK vs this villian as long as I had a diamond. I love letting these overaggro monkeys hang themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone is calling 3bets insanely light and check/raising every flop why would you do this?

edit: I'm seriously confused by this entire thread