I DESERVE RESPECT

[Shoe]

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I don't know what type of people you associate with but I don't know anyone who makes $50k a year who would subject themselves to the embarrassment of this shell game for $2500 a year.

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If you don't want to do it for whatever reason, that is completely your choice. For some people it is too much work for them to keep track of making the monthly payments, for you, apparently free money is embarrasing and lowers your self-esteem. There are many reasons to do or not do this. I just don't understand what you think is embarassing about it. There is nothing wrong, illegal, immoral, or demeaning about doing this. There are also many threads in this forum from supporters of this method -- they just don't buy stocks like I do with the proceeds.

As for embarrassing, I have seen people do some very embarrassing things for a lot less than $2500.

I'm not trying to convince you to take out 0% loans -- but for many people out there it is well worth the effort -- just check out some of the articles and comments at www.mymoneyblog.com.

[Henry17]

What you are doing is no different then kiting and if you are not embarrassed by that then I feel sorry for you. The only people I know who kite are degenerate gamblers, drug addicts and the very irresponsible poor.

Granted because the promotion period is longer then the amount of time cheques take to clear and the amount of funds obtainable is also greater this makes your scam more efficient then regular kiting. In the end it is still kiting.

You want to be rich but you don't even realize that this behaviour is so antithetical to anything someone who is successful would even consider. Because of that I'm certain that, short of winning the lotto, you'll never make it.

[Shoe]

[ QUOTE ]
What you are doing is no different then kiting and if you are not embarrassed by that then I feel sorry for you. The only people I know who kite are degenerate gamblers, drug addicts and the very irresponsible poor.

Granted because the promotion period is longer then the amount of time cheques take to clear and the amount of funds obtainable is also greater this makes your scam more efficient then regular kiting. In the end it is still kiting.

You want to be rich but you don't even realize that this behaviour is so antithetical to anything someone who is successful would even consider. Because of that I'm certain that, short of winning the lotto, you'll never make it.

[/ QUOTE ]

YOU OBVOUSLY DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT KITING IS. Figure it out before you post again and continue to make yourself look like more and more of a fool. Kiting is illegally acquiring or borrowing funds that do not exist.

I am taking out completely legal loans here, what i'm doing is not even close to kiting. I am taking out LEGAL LOANS that financial institutions have approved me for. OTHER COMPANIES are LEGALLY TRANSFERRING me funds that DO EXIST.

Here is an example for you, since you just don't get it. Credit Card company A sends me convenience checks in the mail, they tell to me use them however I want. However much I spend on them, will be charged to my account. I write out a $10,000 check to myself. Now, I have a credit card balance of $10,000, that I owe and am required to pay back to credit card company A. How I use that $10,000 is completely up to me -- it is real money that came from a real source that I can spend however I want. Each month, I make a monthly payment back to the credit card company A, and continue to do so until the balance is paid in full. Also, there is no pre-payment penalty so I can pay it off all at once if I want, or just continue to make the minimum monthly payment until it is paid in full. Now, I am obviously using the low interest rate to my advantage here. there is nothing wrong or illegal about that -- it just makes good financial sense. The company obviously feels it is worth offering me that low rate for my business. Whether they are hoping to be able to charge me higher raters later, or just to use that as an opportunity to build a business relationship with me, they feel it is worth it for them. What I am doing is nothing more than 2 sides reaching an agreement -- it is how business works.

You obviously need to read up on what kiting actually is, and how it is completely different from what I am doing. Here is a good place to start: kiting

Seriously, I am willing to admit when I'm wrong, or even when I'm not sure about something. But you are 100% wrong on this one. All I am doing is taking out loans. And yes, a cash advance/balance transfer from your credit card or whatever you want to call it, is nothing more than a perfectly legal LOAN.

[Henry17]

Sorry but it is exactly like kiting. The only way you get to keep using the funds at the 0% rate is by continuously transferring the balance between different cards. Every 3/6/12 months you pay one card with money drawn on a second card. Which is exactly what you do when kiting cheques except that with cheque kiting, because the clearing house is much faster, you need to do it daily.

[Shoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but it is exactly like kiting. The only way you get to keep using the funds at the 0% rate is by continuously transferring the balance between different cards. Every 3/6/12 months you pay one card with money drawn on a second card. Which is exactly what you do when kiting cheques except that with cheque kiting, because the clearing house is much faster, you need to do it daily.

[/ QUOTE ]

ABSOLUTELY WRONG AGAIN. With kiting, you are writing checks to yourself, drawn off of other accounts that YOU own.

All I am doing is taking out perfectly legal loans. There is nothing wrong with taking out a new loan to pay off another loan. Otherwise, everyone who transfers a credit card balance to a new card would be kiting. Otherwise, anyone who takes out a Home equity loan to consolidate the balance on several cards would be kiting.

If I take out too many loans, I will stop qualifying for new ones. Honestly, after this post I am done wasting my time on you, unless you post something so ridiculous again that I just need to respond, if for nothing else, to clear my name for all these false accusations you are throwing at me.

By your definition, anyone who takes out a loan (even it if it is a car loan, a mortgage, etc...) would be kiting.

PLEASE LEARN WHAT KITING IS BEFORE YOU POST AGAIN.

[Henry17]

There is a difference between doing it once and doing it in perpetuity. I'm sorry you don't see that.

Good luck.

[brendanb438]

I am even more confused then you guys are in regards to how he is getting around cash advance rates with these convience checks. I just checked with Citicard, Bank of America, Chase and Household and all of these convience checks fall under cash advance interest rates if the checks are written out to yourself, in no way do you get introductory balance transfer rates on these. Sure you might get 0% for a couple months on a cash advance but enjoy the 17% plus interest rates afterwards on the cash advance.

Can you enlighten us all on which banks you actually were able to use convience checks with written out to yourself that qualified as balance transfers and not cash advances? This will be huge for making monies on the stockmarketz.

Also I love the who doesn't want to take out $50k in CC loans and earn $2500 while shuffling money from CC to CC. Well shiat I guess in this fun game that Shoe plays he doesn't plan on paying any taxes on that $2500 he made in interest or on any interest earned in other ways of shuffling around this money.

Also that site basically shows you how to "scam" CC companies by shuffling this money around. If you aren't able to get a 0% cash advance on one card, well hell just overpay on it by $5 k with a balance transfer onto another card. That isn't at all against any terms or conditions or considered fraud of any sort if the CC company catches this. I mean damn I saw in the T&Cs were it recommends doing this with dozens of CCs to get mad money and invest in the hugely +EV stock market.

I would gladly call anyone of your CC companies Shoe on your behalf and ask about your accounts if they would have an issue with you doing this. I would bet they would instantly close your accounts because you are "GAMBLING" with their money.

-Brendan

[Henry17]

Use credit card 1 and write a cheque to yourself. This will count as a cash advance and you will pay interest on it.

Apply for a new credit card and transfer the balance from the first credit card to it. Since this is a balance transfer you now get 0% for a few months.

When the promotion is about to end apply for a new card and repeat. In some cases you won't need to apply for a new card as an old one will offer you the option to transfer.

[skindog]

If the terms and conditions allow this, then this is not at all morally reprehensible.

Side rant:
Credit card companies that offer these promotions routinely do it to get the best of financially unaware people in the hopes of hitting a gold mine. Maybe you weren't faced with this when you were growing up, but the second I entered college the only way I can describe credit card companies' behavior is with the word PREDATORY. If anything, offering usurous rates (24-30% was standard) to students who have no concept of financial planning is morally reprehensible. And these companies are the same ones that offer 0% deals readily. So why are you defending these scumbags?

If it's not against the terms, what's the problem? They write the terms, they should get one of their army of lawyers to change the terms, and bam.

If it is against the terms and conditions, then it is shady. On the other hand, you could achieve the same thing without being shady, by simply depositing your paycheck in full to your brokerage account every week and paying everything with the credit card. Would take a little while longer, but you could be getting 0% loans just the same. But why bother?

I know you guys hate shoe, but c'mon, I'm sure you can find a lot of other things to bicker about. This is ridiculous.

[Henry17]

I don't hate Shoe. I don't even know him. I think he is a delusional but that is entertaining.

I don't believe simply adhering to the minimum requirements of the T&C is enough to make something acceptable. Legislation sets out the rules for bankruptcy but there is still something wrong with taking out a bunch of credit, parting like a rock star, then defaulting. Technically it is all within the T&C but it is still shameful.