Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters?)

[mastr]

LFTV, check out the post I made at exact same time as yours... we're ahead of all his ranges given his #ers therefore we stack it in pre if we open up to this aggression, but again, read my above post for response to all this

[ImNotSoGood]

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I would fold.

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yea, AJ isnt even a made hand! not even sure why you raised to begin with !

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If I raise UTG and get reraised in early position, then I call tighter than if I raised on the button. AJ is an awful hand to play against a reraise, because if you connect, you have no idea where you are.

I know the guy is a LAG, but let him take a small pot early and look for a better situation to make a stand.

Personally, I wouldn't always raise initially AJs UTG with 100xBB no ante, but Ansky plays differently.

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Betgo, you're pretty much thinking on the 2nd level against people thinking on the fifth level. Do you not think that Ansky understands legitimate raising ranges/calling ranges with legitimate people. He's already given you reads for the situation. Not calling with AJs here would be terrible.

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TOS thinks Ansky is a satellite qualifier, there is no real metagame involved.

Put yourself in TOS's shoes. An UTG satellite qualifier who you think is TAG raises UTG. Why would you repop him here light? Even if he is a maniac, if he is a thinking player, I don't see any reason for him to raise light in this spot.

I would fold AJs here OOP because I don't think he shows up with a super wide range here, and playing TOS out of position doesn't sound very good.

[djk123]

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ok all you guys what the hell, if we raise here why aren't we 4-betting and calling the 5-bet all in if he's really 3-balling 90+% of hands. I don't like this as much as limp-calling but once we've gotten to this spot, you absolutely HAVE to punish his insanely wide 3-betting

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but his 3 betting and 5 betting ranges aren't necessarily the same. Unless he's on a whole different planet of lagginess, then they are probably drastically different.

but as i said in my first post, if we strongly feel he will pull a light 5 bet often enough, i have no problem with 4 betting

[mlagoo]

man i dont think folding is that bad here. calling is gonna lead to a ridiculously high variance spot being oop with a marginal hand against a maniac. we're often going to end up putting in a fair bit of our stack here postflop just crossing our fingers that his range when 3betting an unknown utg raiser from ep is very wide. i mean i know that i personally would fold here, because i don't think my postflop skill edge is that huge that i can make up for being oop against a good lag with a pretty marginal hand. ansky's situation may be different.

edit: i just read this

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Finally after about 30 minutes into 50/100 my stomach feels fine and I am playing some poker. 2 to my left is a mega euro LAGtard, TerrorOfSweden. He is reraising or raising almost every single hand, NEVER folding to reraises once he has entered the pot, and his vpip is prob over 90%. He is completely fearless, and prob doesn't care if he loses in the first hour.

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and now elect to call. i should have read the op more carefully. i thought the whole premise was just like "he's a laggy european! HE COULD HAVE ANYTHING!", and i thought that was a bit dubious.

anyway, move along, nothing to see here.

[LearnedfromTV]

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LFTV, check out the post I made at exact same time as yours... we're ahead of all his ranges given his #ers therefore we stack it in pre if we open up to this aggression, but again, read my above post for response to all this

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I see your point. We do have to punish his loose 3betting and depending on assumptions, 4betting for value might be the best way. Here's my counterargument.

Whether we can 4bet and call a shove has to do with what he does versus 4bets. If he's really threebetting 90% and then following through, then we should be able to 4bet AJs and call a shove profitably, unless he has a big exploitable gap in his approach to unknowns 4bets, but I think it's very reasonable to believe he has this gap.

If unknown raises UTG, and he threebets 90%, unknown should 4bet a significant % of the time - he should have raised expecting the 3 bet for one thing, plus the ranges involved are basically analogous to an uberLAG BN open (TOS's 3bet) and a SB 3bet (UTG's 4bet). So clearly he (Ansky) should 4bet wide. But. If TOS is used to being 4bet way less than he should be, he'll essentially be acting like a dumb lag from like two years ago, before people had gotten used to 3betting as a standard response to opening loose in late position; he'll threebet lots and tighten up considerably versus a 4bet.

If this is how he reacts to being 4bet by a random (an UTG random who seems nervous, no less), we should 4 bet bluff lots, but stuff like AJs/99 will play better if we let him keep his initiative and his 90% range.

[LearnedfromTV]

Having said all that, I just reread the OP and, (assuming this applies to a 3bet being 4bet just as much as a regular raise being 3bet), seeing this :

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NEVER folding to reraises once he has entered the pot,

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makes me want to 4bet.

[pdjplano]

a quick question, what, in general, is a "mega euro LAGtard"'s call/shoving range to 4-bets from an (believed to be) unknown relatively tight UTG raiser?

[mastr]

ToS is playing 95 % of hands and 3-betting every time he can , draw your own conclusions with how he reacts to a 4-bet from someone that is young

[betgo]

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ToS is playing 95 % of hands and 3-betting every time he can , draw your own conclusions with how he reacts to a 4-bet from someone that is young

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I think the question is if he is really 3-betting an UTG raise from 3rd position with like 80% of his hands. If he is, then fine call, or 4-bet and call a push.

[FGators]

Its funny that if you change that Jack of diamonds to a Jack of hearts I bet everyone starts screaming fold fold fold to the 3 bet.