162 Mid pair Spot

[Pudge714]

I call pre and call the flop.
People folding 88 here.
What is the biggest pair you are folding? Assume you will flat qq/jj some percent of the time here?

[ActionJeff]

edit- dont wanna go into detail nvm, srry mttc =)

i call flop as played

[uclabruinz]

[ QUOTE ]
I call pre and call the flop.
People folding 88 here.
What is the biggest pair you are folding? Assume you will flat qq/jj some percent of the time here?

[/ QUOTE ]

My calling range depends on the read, but if it's an unknown I'm probably folding everything up to 77. As I was saying earlier, you should probably fold 88 as well preflop if you are playing for what Bakes calls "set/overpair/oesd" value. If that's a +EV approach, which I doubt, it's pretty marginal. If you're playing it adding in value with position, taking away hands, etc., then this one of the many spots you should be looking to do that against an unknown given his range when he bets and how much of that will fold if you call and bet a checked turn.

[bluesbassman]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with Bakes, folding pf is my preferred option here and I wouldn't even think about playing after this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that's tight. (Or maybe I'm a loose donk?) I call preflop here not only for set value, but also to take the pot (with the likely best hand) on lots of flops. On the particular flop in the OP and no read, I give villain credit for a K and fold.

[Pudge714]

I was talking about the flop, once you call pre and the flop is k77 do you fold QQ? JJ? TT?.

[getballed]

WHat makes us think that villain is not cbetting here? Instead of raising calling the flop and betting the turn if he checks is a good option for folding out AX hands except for AK of course and you wont be folding out TT+ either

[Bakes]

This thread is weird. Why are people even considering folding pre? Its 36bb effective stacks and we have position. I think you can flat a huge range here with position, not just to mention every pocket pair! His raise is around 7% of your stack ffs, I'm not surprised uclanitz would fold 77 to this open. thats a big [censored] leak.

Regarding the flop - I don't think a call is bad here at all with any pair. I would certainly call with 88 at times, but I don't think folding is a bad option at all. As the pairs get bigger calling becomes more attractive because u beat more hands, less hands have overs etc but I don't really have a good sense of how big the difference between 88 and TT is, for instance.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, you don't have to be a genius to see that I'm talking about either folding preflop or not folding a paired, rainbow flop with one overcard to a likely cbet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding is totally fine. K77 and especially A77 are much worse than T77 for example.

[curtains]

btw I would call preflop to 2.5x raise and possibility of more calls from the blinds. K77 just isn't a good flop for us, also hard for us to hit it, so they might not give up easily.

[Brett D]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with Bakes, folding pf is my preferred option here and I wouldn't even think about playing after this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

gobbo, whats your thinking behind this? thanks