Pooh Bah Dissertation Chapter 1: Big Pots vs Small Pots

[KitCloudkicker]

Greetings all. For my pooh bah dissertation I will be writing about a few topics that I've learned from reading these forums the past few years. As far as I know these topics have not been presented in this format as of yet but rather are scattered throughout hand postings. These are also topics that I think are either debated often in the forums, or ones that not many people are aware of. I am by no means an expert on them, so feel free to chime in with criticisms as you see fit.


Topic 1: Big pots vs small pots.

I think a big leak that many limit players have is that they do not play differently in small pots and big pots. In a small pot (i.e. one that is 5 SB or less after preflop action), many players play they same as they do when the pot is 10 SB or greater (after preflop action).

In general, your goal in a small pot should be to win the most when ahead and the least when behind...i.e. maximize the amount of bets you win. Your goal should NOT be to always win the pot or make sure you protect your hand. Here's an example of what I consider to be good small pot play.

Situation: 10/20 live game. 8 handed.

You are dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB. It folds to a weak player in the CO who open limps. The button folds. A fairly aggressive and tricky player completes in the SB, and you check your option.

The flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

The SB leads. You should NOT automatically raise in this spot. In fact, if you had to choose a raise/call distribution (folding is out of the question vs said player) I would prefer something like 25/75. Note several things.

1) There is only one player behind you. He is a weak/passive player. It is unlikely that he hit this flop in any way, and even if he flopped a pair of nines the pot size would not justify even calling 1 bet.

2) The aggressive player can have any number of holdings here, many of which have few outs against you. Consider what happens when you smooth call vs if you raise.

a) when you raise, if the aggressive player has a weak hand like a pair of 3's or 9's, he will probably call and c/f the turn, winning you 1 BB.
b) with said weak hand, if you call, the aggressive player will almost always bet any turn card. If you call that and then either bet the river if checked to or call the river, you win 2.5 BB.
c) raising the flop opens you up to attack by the aggressor. Tricky players often like to call a flop raise and then check raise the turn with a big hand, putting you in a difficult spot.

Note that the more money you can get the aggressor to put in while he is drawing slim, the more money you stand to gain. Against some opponents who showdown any pair, you should consider putting in a raise, but NOT UNTIL a big street where the bets double, thus maximizing your earn. Against others who are capable of folding, consider calling all the way or waiting all the way til the river to raise. Protection should NOT be an issue with this hand - there are no draws that can correctly call one bet but not two in this situation. Your play should strictly be to maximize value, and often value maximization in this spot comes from a passive line.


Now lets consider how this differs from big pot play. In big pots, your goal should be different. You should be looking to win the pot, not save bets. PROTECTION IS KEY HERE! This may mean putting in bets and raises even if the situation doesn't look particularly promising.

Situation: Live 4/8 game.

There are 4 limpers, and the button raises. SB calls, and you call with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in the big blind. Everyone calls.

The flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

You should check this flop with the intention of check raising a late position bet, perhaps by the PFR. Notice that it is very likely that your pot equity is low on this flop. You may be drawing slim or dead, and there is a flush draw and some straight draws that can come to beat you. Nonetheless, you should play aggressively to maximize your chances of winning a big pot like this. A flop lead in this situation is a poor play, as any gutshot or two pair draw has good odds to continue. You must try to induce folds, and to do this you must attempt a check raise. If the flop gets checked around, it is unfortunate - but note that if someone beats you on the turn, he would have done so even if you led the flop.


The aforementioned examples are ones where you flop top pair. Similar situations come up when you flop draws, middle pair, etc. But the idea is the same.

Big pot: PROTECTION 1st, VALUE 2nd (although Value is still important to obtain).
Small pot: VALUE 1st, PROTECTION 2nd.

Please feel free to chime in with comments or post hands that you feel are relevant to the discussion.


-Kit

-End Chapter 1-

[jstill]

first...

[JacksonTens]

well written. I'm sure this will help many struggling players.

JT

[Yossarian147]

This concept is expanded on in Ed Miller's limit dvd series. It's a good set to check out after studying SSHE.

[ProfessorBen]

Example one would be better if the board was rainbow and you could WA/WB the whole field. As is, it's still not bad to play passively but there is nothing wrong with raising to charge flush draws in CO/SBs range.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
Example one would be better if the board was rainbow and you could WA/WB the whole field. As is, it's still not bad to play passively but there is nothing wrong with raising to charge flush draws in CO/SBs range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about this when I made up the hand example and ultimately decided to put up a flush draw there. The trouble is that I think its often better to let an aggro keep firing a draw (which he may well do on all 3 streets). Raising the flop or turn may maximize value against said player if he would try to 3 bet semi bluff, but you have to

1) know that he's on a draw
2) because of this, be able to dump your hand to a 3rd diamond and not fold when he 3 bets a blank.

So in a nutshell, if you were positive he's on a 9-out draw, then putting in more raises is ok. If you are unsure as to his range (i.e. if its weighted towards 9's, 3's etc), then i still think its better to call down on this board.

[Allday Everyday]

Hi Kit. Congratulations on your Pooh-Bahdom. Man, you were fast getting there.

Nice post. Obv. I have nothing to add. Just thought I'd say it's well written, with good examples. Will help players such as me who don't understand or remember this important concept. Looking forward to chapter 2.

[BryanC]

Think you got this spot on, great post !

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Kit. Congratulations on your Pooh-Bahdom. Man, you were fast getting there.


[/ QUOTE ]

hey thanks - yeah, actually i've been posting here for a long time (almost 2 yrs) but under a different name for much of it. thus maybe this is a bit overdue.

[Bob T.]

One side note, if your opponents, many of which play the same hand, the same way all the time, are paying attention, this also provides a measure of deception.

They see you pop TPNK in a big pot, so they assume that when you don't raise in a small pot, you can't have a hand that good. And they continue to bluff into you, when you are way ahead.

Or they see you play a small pot passively, and now you are raising in a bigger pot, they might put you on a bigger hand, and make an incorrect fold.

I had been playing in a game this morning, where I was basically just value betting.

I flopped a double gutshot, with an overcard, and thought that it was a good spot to raise, and maybe clean up my overcard outs.

EP bet, I raised, and then next two players, and then EP all folded.