Who banned Clarkmeister?

[Dids]

FWIW

"Someone like Dids is completely capable of defending himself. Hal is not."

Strikes me as really insulting to your friend. He's blind, and it doesn't sound like you're specifically referencing the challenges that presents in dealing with an insult online. Mentally, one would assume he's still fully capable of mustering up a rebuttal to Clark's accusations.

I tend to think that most people calling me fat make themselves look petty and uncreative. I roll my eyes and move on. Clark's post made him look petty and small, and I think that, and the scorn in generates is likely punishment enough. The forums are reasonably good about policing themselves when people get out of line to this degree. I think the appropriate place for a mod to step in is well past where Clark went.

Like citanul mentions, it seems like the rationale for this ban is based on an expectation of a culture that doesn't exist on these forums, and likely never will given the demographics that comprise the forum's membership. Frankly, a good number of the mods on this site (myself included) probably say something equally cutting daily, and nobody bats an eye. I don't even think this is a bad thing really, it's just the culture on the forums.

[Chump Change]

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... or how the 1993 Phoenix Suns were clearly >>>>>>> 1993 Chicago Bulls)

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Which side of the debate do you take, tuq? This is like the most important question i've ever asked on 2p2.

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Well you're from Chicago so there's no way you're gonna agree with me, but anyway here goes.

The Suns were a better team than the Bulls that year. The better team doesn't always win. They won the most games in the regular season, but that's not my only argument. Danny Ainge, who played for the Blazers team that lost to the Bulls the previous year said (paraphrasing) "this one hurts more because last year Chicago was the better team. This year we were."

The Suns were Finals noobs, whereas the Bulls were two-time defending champions who had hardened playoff skillz from tangling with the Pistons prior to that. So the Suns put up no fight in going down 0-2, both games at home.

Then they woke up and in their three games in Chicago won game three in triple overtime, barely lost game four (MJ went for something like 55 that game) and then took game five pretty easily.

Speaking of Ainge, he pretty much cost the Suns the series when, for reasons that will forever elude me, he decide to double team Horace Grant, leaving Paxson open for the dagger three when the Suns were up two. It's not just that Horace Grant making a two would merely tie the game and give the Suns the last shot, it was that Horace Grant had made one freaking shot in games five and six combined.

So in those last four games the Suns were 2-2, 2-1 on the road, and both losses were in the last minute.

Granted, that was possibly the weakest of the Bulls championship teams. 1998 where they also narrowly escaped (that time to the Jazz) was pretty weak too.

Clarkmeister argues that had MJ not retired they would have run off eight straight. I say no way, his taking time off and coming back motivated and giving guys like Pippen a taste of life without him is a huge reason they won the last three titles.

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YEEESSSS AND IT COUNTS


Tux for mod, ban clarkmeister.



I totally agree. Sure I liked the bulls, they were sick, but i've never rooted for a team just because I lived there and i've never really understood the appeal. My favorite player of all time is isiah thomas, to give you an idea of how it was growing up, sports fan-wise. People have became genuinely angry at me for rooting on the pistons way back in the 'jordan rules' era. Even recently, in BBV, I was explaining how Jordan was overrated and some people became downright furious. Lol.

[El Diablo]

Mat, Mason:

I agree 100% w/ citanul's post and it pretty much sums up what I'd say about this situation. I have no problem at all with saying posts like Clark's are not acceptable here. I just think that far more offensive things are allowed here every single day.

Edited to add: Also, the fact that Mason knows him makes him far more able to defend himself against anything posted here than countless people who have no clue about what is posted on 2+2 about them.

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... elephant trunk and a bunch of supermarios humping her or some nonsense..

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Citanul, you will forever be known as the muse for my opus.

Happy birthday btw.


Plus, free/ban clarkmeister.

[Gildwulf]

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he can't see the cards or the board without being told what they are.

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Someone like Dids is completely capable of defending himself. Hal is not.

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If the reasoning is that he can't defend himself:

He has someone reading his hole cards and telling him the action at a poker table...can't Hal technically ask that person to read the forum and dictate a response to the helper? As you said, he has someone who's job is to help him play poker. Part of playing poker is studying the game through hand analysis. If a blind professional poker player plays online, he probably has someone looking through his pokertracker data. It's not really a stretch to have someone comb the forums for strategy and news.

In other words, Hal has used someone to interact with the poker community before; not sure why this is limited to the poker table.

If the reasoning is defending standards on the board that apply everywhere, people have already covered it. These are absolutely not the standards enforced across the board as most mods have already said, and if punishment is to occur mods always take factors such as 'posting history' in the length of the ban. The overwhelming majority of mods, who read the forum more than any of the reds and deal with this kind of thing more often, disagree with the permaban and, at most, would give a tempban.

The only argument that really is sound is that it's your board and you can do whatever you want and this personally offended you. I have no problem with this line of thinking and it makes the most sense. But the other two issues, that he's incapable of defending himself and that it is defending some kind of general 2p2 standard, I don't think are very strong arguments.

[El Diablo]

Gild,

Dragon Software FTW

[SamIAm]

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He was attacking someone who has lost at least 98 percent of his vision and can only play poker with the help of someone else telling him what the cards are. It was beyond shameful and I consider Clarkmeister's comments to be one of the low points in the history of our website.

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it's simply below the standards of this site to attack someone who has lost 98 percent of his vision because he slows up the game. I consider this a shameful incident that's well below the standards established here.

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let me make this very clear. Attacking someone who has lost 98 percent of his vision, and has to bring someone with him to tell him what the cards are, because he plays to slow is simply shameful.

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From these comments, I understood that Mason wasn't just upset that Hal couldn't defend himself, but also that Clarkmeister was insulting someone who had suffered a tragic loss and is admirably living through it.

On the other hand, I don't think there's ever been an OOT thread about a tragedy where someone didn't make fun of it. We have a community that often makes callous comments about people who lead hard lives. Most of these comments go without punishment.

[El Diablo]

Sam,

I don't think anyone has a problem or really disagrees w/ Mason's assessment that it is not very classy to rip on people w/ disabilities.

The issue is simply that things I consider far more mean-spirited and offensive/insulting/hurtful towards people are posted all the time on 2+2 with no thought of any punishment.

[RR]

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Sam,

I don't think anyone has a problem or really disagrees w/ Mason's assessment that it is not very classy to rip on people w/ disabilities.

The issue is simply that things I consider far more mean-spirited and offensive/insulting/hurtful towards people are posted all the time on 2+2 with no thought of any punishment.

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I do think it matters which forum it is in. Tournament Circuit generally doesn't have the random attacks in it. I think there is also the issue that Mason was upset because this wasn't some random kid, this was someone he knows attacking someone else he knows.

[citanul]

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I do think it matters which forum it is in. Tournament Circuit generally doesn't have the random attacks in it. I think there is also the issue that Mason was upset because this wasn't some random kid, this was someone he knows attacking someone else he knows.

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RR,

While I think that it's possible that Mason wants there to be different levels of decorum for each forum (hey, internal rhyme, who knew?), the impression I get from his posts in this thread is that there's also a more important low bar that he wants for all forums, and that he believes CM's post was below that bar. Additionally MM specifically said that this had nothing to do with personally knowing CM or Hal. That implies that this is a sort of standard that we should be enforcing - whether it's across forums or just one forum is obviously MM's decision in the end. Obviously, as with all qualitative standards, it would be nice to have some sort of direction, since "this isn't OK" doesn't in a vacuum tell us what we're supposed to be doing with the day to day nonsense that many find significantly more disturbing than CM's post.

c