hmmmmm...NLCASH

[jakeduke]

are you putting villain on total air when you raise the turn or do you think he has a pair? I just don't see villain (assuming he's bad) folding much here unless he has total air, since he probably has an overpair or pair + draw of some kind. Would calling the turn be ok?

[CTKid]

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I just cannot see what he could have that beats you. I dont like the turn raise either though to be honest. His line looks like a ten or air. A real feel hand where folding looks right but I can make the hero call also. Just hope we are not looking at a retarded overpair line.

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what about a set afraid of the straight on the turn?

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i really don't think he ever has a fullhouse the way the action went down. like <1%

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yeah the more I think the more I agree with you about that.

nonetheless, what hands are you beating? the best candidates are the counterfitted two-pair hands. Is he good (or bad) enough to turn 67 or 78 into a weak river bluff? And wouldn't he push instead of < 1/2 pot if that's what he's done?

my guess is that he's making a thin vbet with an overpair or he has a bare 9 himself, and is looking for a bluff-catcher call.

[jsnipes28]

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are you putting villain on total air when you raise the turn or do you think he has a pair? I just don't see villain (assuming he's bad) folding much here unless he has total air, since he probably has an overpair or pair + draw of some kind. Would calling the turn be ok?

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ya, my turn raise is bad but i can also see him calling w/ a flush draw, or something like Jx where x=678T, or obv even QJ.

I really feel pretty confident that he doesn't have a 9, he may some small % of the time but I feel pretty confident he shoves turn with it.

But ya, my turn raise is bad fo sho as he is not capable of relinquishing better hands and most of the time he isn't calling with worse and will put me in a sick spot when he shoves. I think calling and folding can be ok sometimes.

[jsnipes28]

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nonetheless, what hands are you beating? the best candidates are the counterfitted two-pair hands. Is he good (or bad) enough to turn 67 or 78 into a weak river bluff? And wouldn't he push instead of < 1/2 pot if that's what he's done?

my guess is that he's making a thin vbet with an overpair or he has a bare 9 himself, and is looking for a bluff-catcher call.


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I am pretty sure villain doesn't know wtf he is doing, but he can certainly be inadvertently turning a made hand into a bluff (one that might have gotten counterfeited). If he is v-betting AA or JT like this I am pretty sure he is not going for "thin value" either, but rather just betting because he has no idea what he should do and hopes that I will fold (what he wants me to fold he is unsure of) or just call so he can see what i have [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Anyhow, I def f'ed the turn, but on the river I just didn't think that there were enough hands that took his line that could beat me so I called and he flipped K4cc and I was right this time, but thought it was an interesting hand and hand reading exercise where I got to fix my turn mistake.

[Stealthy]

Jsnipes the min 3 bet with K4s is horrible pre. Are there many villains this bad at the $600 game? You always assume when moving up that the play is bigger and better higher up but every street by villain is horrendous.

[xSCWx]

The min 3 bet is horrible in general.

[Stealthy]

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The min 3 bet is horrible in general.

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Obviously. I was just wondering how prevelant such bad play was at 3/6.

[jsnipes28]

Stealthy-

Game selection. The other thing is (and I am not at all defending the min3) with HU play stuff like min3betting and check/minraising and limping is not nearly as bad as in 6max because if you don't adjust correctly their strategy can be somewhat effective.

Like just because he min3s does not mean he necessarily play horrible elsewhere--he could have horrible fundamentals but make decent decisions most of the time (not that this was the case here)

[creedofhubris]

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Stealthy-

Game selection. The other thing is (and I am not at all defending the min3) with HU play stuff like min3betting and check/minraising and limping is not nearly as bad as in 6max because if you don't adjust correctly their strategy can be somewhat effective.

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I don't think so. Min3betting preflop, the reaction most of us have is to flatcall the min3bet and then play poker postflop, which is a pretty good response. i.e. the min3bet doesn't get them anywhere.