Important, yet often ignored strategy question

[shaniac]

In Dublin, they set it up to close tournament registration at least two hours before the event started. Then, they took all the names registered and randomly assigned them seats (I assume using a computer program). Our seat assignments were then posted on a screen.

This is by far the best way to ensure random seating, but it's not really practical unless there is a capped number of entrants.

I don't have an answer for OP, but I always try to buyin the night before the event or earlier.

[Goldmund]

Your reading comprehension is not quite up to par Pudge. What Mr. Multi-entries says is that ALL SAT PLAYERS ARE COMPLETE DONKS. Thats an idiotic, arrogant statement. If you dont agree, you are retarded. Goldmund

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Obviously, the goal is to end up with as many satellite players and other complete donks at your table as possible

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How more stupidly arrogant can you get than referring to satellite players as a group as complete donks? Check how many of the majors are won by tough players that satellited their way in, "hotshot".

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If you don't get that the average direct buy-in player is better than the average player who sats in you are retarded.

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[timex]

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Your reading comprehension is not quite up to par Pudge. What Mr. Multi-entries says is that ALL SAT PLAYERS ARE COMPLETE DONKS. Thats an idiotic, arrogant statement. If you dont agree, you are retarded. Goldmund

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Obviously, the goal is to end up with as many satellite players and other complete donks at your table as possible

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How more stupidly arrogant can you get than referring to satellite players as a group as complete donks? Check how many of the majors are won by tough players that satellited their way in, "hotshot".

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If you don't get that the average direct buy-in player is better than the average player who sats in you are retarded.

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He didn't say "all" or "every" he simply implied that satellite players are worse than players who buyin directly. I think its ignorant that you still call ZJ Mr. Multi-entries so long after the fact. Multiaccounting is something that is more common than people realize, and was much more common at the time. The only reason his account was frozen is to make an example of a recognizable player. As a result, ignorant players place all the blame on him, when in actuality, it was a large % of the community, and he was the fall-guy. I don't see how people don't realize this, and still think lowly of ZJ.


Also, why are you so offended by the concept that satellite players are worse than those who buyin directly?

[mastr]

This guy has completely derailed the thread and is just being nitpicky and stupid. I wish mods did something about people l ike this.

In the end its a very flawed system, but the best option seems clearly to be to reg either a couple days before the event (you're in with satelliters) or to purposely get on the waitlist because like as I said, they make tables of 10 of the waitlist and that's usually people that are all gamble gamble. What I wouldn't do is reg just before the event starts because that's the biggest time for DBI's of good players to reg.

[sheetsworld]

(partial hijack)

It is very interesting to me how "direct buyin" players compare on average with those who satellite in. I used to think that those who satellite in were weaker players, but I could never really come up with a legitimate reason why. After all, a person who buys in directly has demonstrated the ability to do nothing other than have the required buyin, while someone who satellited in has displayed at the very least SOME poker skill.

I think that all satellite winners are not created equal, so to speak. If someone wins a 400 player online super with a slow structure paying 1 seat into a 10k event in Atlantic City which is being held on a weekend in the midst of a convention, then I susprec the satellie winner is probably 3x the ev of the average direct buyin.

If the satellite is someone who chopped a 1 table sattellite with 12 minute blind escalations and has won a seat into a bellagio 5k which is on a thursday, I imagine the satelliter is maybe 1/4 the ev of the direct buyin player.

So I don't know for sure if it is the satelliters whom u want to seek out...it just depends I think.

and btw, the joke about the multiaccounting would have been soooo much better if the guy didnt say "u know what I mean". Just some comedic guidance for the future.


sheets

[shaniac]

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(partial hijack)

It is very interesting to me how "direct buyin" players compare on average with those who satellite in. I used to think that those who satellite in were weaker players, but I could never really come up with a legitimate reason why. After all, a person who buys in directly has demonstrated the ability to do nothing other than have the required buyin, while someone who satellited in has displayed at the very least SOME poker skill.

I think that all satellite winners are not created equal, so to speak. If someone wins a 400 player online super with a slow structure paying 1 seat into a 10k event in Atlantic City which is being held on a weekend in the midst of a convention, then I susprec the satellie winner is probably 3x the ev of the average direct buyin.

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Well, one thing is that a lot of satellite winners have already achieved their goal by winning the satellite, and they're not necessarily focused or prepared to go on and win the actual tournament.

This obviously depends wildly on the venue, and I think satellite winners at (for instance) Foxwoods are going to be more hapless than satellite winners at the Bellagio, many of whom are pros who played the satellites because they're +EV to begin with.

Actually, the reverse is true at the Bellagio and (confirming your original point) the softer spots in the field are often the random high-roller gamblers who decide to buyin.

[NYWalker]

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Well, one thing is that a lot of satellite winners have already achieved their goal by winning the satellite, and they're not necessarily focused or prepared to go on and win the actual tournament.


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This is very true for most of those players who didn't have the budget (or a winning bankroll) to directly buy-in and winning the satellite is the only way to play the tournament. In LAPC, I've seen so many people cheered about winning the 10K seat thru the nightly "$200 rebuly super satellites " where the only play was all-in PF on almost every hands. However, they didn't know most of them wouldn't pass day 1.
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Actually, the reverse is true at the Bellagio and (confirming your original point) the softer spots in the field are often the random high-roller gamblers who decide to buyin.

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Also, the $540 single table satellite 1-winner players are generally better than those $320 2-winners ones.

Before a large event, playing deep single table satellite (500 dollar+ buy-in SNG) is a good opportunity to know your opponenets because a good portion of players (even high bankroll winning players like David Williams, Nam Le ...) would like to satellite-in first.

Bellagio's $2700 single table satellites (for 25K seat) next week would be great ones to play.

[adanthar]

it 100% depends on the donkament. the WSOP ME sat field is probably 70% dead money, 30% tougher than average. the Moscow Millions sat field will be 90% tougher, not because the sat qualifiers will be good but because the people who buy in from Moscow in some cases literally will not understand the rules. the sat field for some random WPT event that's advertised on one or two sites is somewhere in between.

anyway, who cares, this is a very important question and if it gets derailed I'll be extremely pissed.

[rabbitlover]

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This is by far the best way to ensure random seating, but it's not really practical unless there is a capped number of entrants.


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Any tournament could accomplish this. You don't have to cap the number of entries, just cap the time that you take entries up to. 2 hours prior to the tournament start should do it.

[NYWalker]

Most big name players show up at the $3000 buy-in single table satellites at Bellagio. The games are very good!