25/50: Standard with bad aces?

[aba20]

Should I always be looking to get it in preflop even with these horrible aces?

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $25/$50
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $6756
UTG+1: $6960
Hero: $7246
MP2: $5747
CO: $1672
Button: $4250
SB: $6713
BB: $17564

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $225</font>, Hero calls, 5 folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $975</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $3975

[aba20]

Sorry, just read FAQ, this can be deleted if MODs feel this has been covered before.

[flawless_victory]

standard, ya.

[Lafortezza]

Depending on how the game is playing it's standard. I would not be annoyed if both Villains folded though.

[RoundTower]

[ QUOTE ]
Depending on how the game is playing it's standard. I would not be annoyed if both Villains folded though.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would be happier if both villains folded, no way you have a 1200 edge on average if the money goes in. But yeah standard for me, some people will argue for a fold.

[aba20]

This may be results orieneted thinking, but I think this is closer to a fold. I was pretty sure that UTG had aces, althought I wasn't sure of the strength of those aces. I figured UTG+1 had some type of drawing hand since he didn't reraise when he had the chance.

pokenum -mc 500000 -o ad 2s ah 5c - as ac 5s jc - 8d js th qs
Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
2s 5c Ad Ah 54084 10.82 276376 55.28 169540 33.91 0.278
As 5s Ac Jc 79329 15.87 251131 50.23 169540 33.91 0.328
Qs Js 8d Th 197047 39.41 302953 60.59 0 0.00 0.394

Again this may be results oriented thinking but I never think I have better than 1/3 equity in the pot. I think the only place I gain value by a move like this is when I get it HU against the other aces wtih 1K in dead money in the pot.

[RoundTower]

This is why it kind of depends on the game, if there's any chance UTG will pull this stunt with a small wrap, or even better, KK, you have excellent equity. I can't imagine the 5k is full of nits, and you have two of the aces, so UTG may not have aces as often as you think.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Again this may be results oriented thinking but I never think I have better than 1/3 equity in the pot. I think the only place I gain value by a move like this is when I get it HU against the other aces wtih 1K in dead money in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]


aba,

You need to break that simulation down into 2 headsup ones with each of those other two hands as well:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1837038
pokenum -mc 500000 -o 2s 5c ad ah - qs js 8d th
Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
2s 5c Ad Ah 268737 53.75 231263 46.25 0 0.00 0.537
Qs Js 8d Th 231263 46.25 268737 53.75 0 0.00 0.463

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1837042
pokenum -mc 500000 -o 2s 5c ad ah - as 5s ac jc
Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
2s 5c Ad Ah 48001 9.60 115299 23.06 336700 67.34 0.433
As 5s Ac Jc 115299 23.06 48001 9.60 336700 67.34 0.567



Those show that your hand isn't much of a favorite over that straight hand and that he is the one gaining from any dead money in making his money odds better, and that your hand is a dog to a better AA hand. There is no way I go to the felt with your hand against a similar size stack. I know others may think it terribly tight, but as I have said here before, I fold junky AA hands like that in aggressive games and will never reraise with them unless I am sure it will be headsup against a short stack. So I would have folded to the 2nd raise instead of reraising as you did.

[RoundTower]

Bluff,

when you do get heads up, how often do you think you will be against a hand of the first type, and how often against a hand of the second type (of which your example is one of the stronger possibilities)?

How much equity do you have in the pot in that case on average, and how much do you forfeit by folding when there is already 1000+ in the pot? Because your numbers make me, if anything, more inclined to push.

[AlcateL]

Standard, you can't pass anyway..