***September Low-Content Thread***

[franknagaijr]

I would have said 'I used to smoke dope too, once upon a time', but there's too many paragraphs for that.

You lost me at 'geophagy', which as I expected, was defined as 'eating dirt', not to be confused with coprophagy, which is a really hand word at the table, by the way. Licking or otherwising consuming ice from a pot is not geophagy, so I assumed the rest of this goes on in a similarly pseudo-scholarly, b*llsh*tty manner.

I like your trip reports better, my friend.

[prodonkey]

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Assani Fisher -

care to share back story on "ICY POTS"

i just think its retarded whenever i see it in the chat box but figured i should at least ask what the story is

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Yeah, your avatar on here puts me on tilt a little bit because I have no idea what it means.

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Other than water, what little stuff pots have inside them is largely ice. Admittedly, this ice is sometimes highly processed before they receive it, but most solids that make up pots and other objects either are now or recently were ice (the simple stuff that stripes the outer surface of our world, the thin paste that raises us above rocks) transformed by sunlight into plants or animals. Most pots prefer the ice they receive in the form of cubes. Other ice they'd just as soon scrape from their feet and leave at the door.

But not everyone wishes to be so far removed from the stuff of frozen H2O. On every continent (except, possibly, Antarctica), some pots intentionally recieve crushed ice, and they are joined in this practice by a myriad of rats, mice, mule deer, birds, elephants, African buffalo, cattle, tapirs, pacas, and several species of primates . Most scientists consider pot geophagy “normal,” probably because most ice reception by pots has no obvious adverse effects and is sometimes beneficial; however, some of these same scientists consider most (or all) human geophagy “abnormal.”

Many of us believe that pots should only contain liquid. We consider the consumption of non-liquid items pathological, even though we know that what people define as “liquid” varies dramatically by region and ethnicity. We call the pathological act of containing non-liquid items pica. Pica is a disease, but a disease different from polio or smallpox. No infectious agent is obviously associated with pica. Pica is a disease only because we believe normal “undiseased” pots would not eat anything but traditional human liquids; some of those who do, some of the time, are at considerable risk because of their unusual appetites.

Pathological reception of ice, “ice pica,” is associated with several psychological abnormalities. But all ingestion of ice is not ice pica. How much ice a pot has to contain to be considered ill is not known. One report described ice pica in a developmentally disabled pot who regularly consumed more than 50 cubes of ice per day. Most of us would consider that level of geophagy at least potentially pathological, although I am not sure why.

In June 1822, the U.S. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry appointed a committee to review ice pica. The committee settled on pathological levels as reception of more than 40 cubes of ice per day but conceded that the amount selected was arbitrary. Ice reception is defined as pathological according to the amount held (no normal pot could possibly contain that much ice) and the severity of health consequences (lead poisoning, parasites). Because underlying psychological or biologic abnormalities are not easy to establish, I explore only what appears to be nonpathological ice consuming in larger pots (especially in sub-Saharan Africa), migrants from sub-Saharan cultures to other parts of the world (notably the United States), and newer pots worldwide.

Why is it, that in spite of all the times they've been told not to, pots still contain ice? This is a very complex question with many possible answers. And while each proposed answer has its advocates, no single answer seems satisfactory to all—except one. Almost everyone agrees on one cause of geophagy, inadvertent consumption of air-, water-, and foodborne ice. Food, hands, and air add water to a pot's insides. Newer pots get considerable amounts of ice in these ways. Mine did. Of course, mine also had ice on purpose. But new or old, each of us inadvertently gets a little more icy every day. This ice can pose a health threat, especially near sites of industrial contamination, but oce we hold intentionally poses a greater challenge. Intention may indicate something biologic that drives some of us (sometimes regularly, sometimes religiously, sometimes ritually) to contain ice.

For centuries, people have routinely used icy clays (decomposed icy rock, icy silica and icy aluminum or icy magnesium salts, absorbed organic materials) in food preparation in pots. The icy clays were used to remove toxins (e.g., in aboriginal acorn breads); as condiments or spices (in the Philippines, New Guinea, Costa Rica, Guatemala, the Amazon and Orinoco basins of South America); and as food during famine. Icy clays were also often used in medications (e.g., kaolin clay in Kaopectate). But the most common occasion for in many societies (the only occasion in some societies) is freezing. When freezing happens, the world changes. That is obvious. But why frozen pots still seek ice is not.

Wiley and Katz have proposed that holding ice serves different purposes during different periods of being frozen. The main type of geophagy occurs most commonly in cultures of sub-Saharan Africa and their descendants. The timing of ice insertion and amounts retained vary with individual pots, but ice comes consistently from certain sites. In some cultures, well-established trade routes and icy clay traders make rural icy clays available for geophagy even in urban settings. Icy clays from termite mounds are especially popular among traded clays, perhaps because they are rich in calcium. Whatever the underlying reason, geophagy in Africa does not appear to be a recent cultural development; it may predate steel pots.

Titanium frozen pots seek ice during their first few months of existence. Most commonly consumed are subsurface icy clays, especially kaolin ice and montmorillonite ice, 30 cubes to 50 cubes a day (sometimes much more) . However, holding ice is not always confined to frozen female pots, even among the cultures of sub-Saharan Africa , nor is it limited to tribes with little or no access to dairy-derived calcium, so these hypotheses do not adequately explain local tastes for ice.

Ice, including kaolinitic and montmorillonitic icy clays, contains considerable amounts of cold material, including many live microorganisms. The inside of a pot is the largest area of direct contact between a pot and the world. Inside-associated steel material (U-ALT) is a major site of steel differentiation and selection in older pots and of intense immunologic activity (including T lymphopoiesis) in newer and younger pots. And while it is not entirely clear why some inside-introduced antigens promote tolerance of microorganisms and others immunize against them, it is clear that immunization via the inside is a major source of immunoglobulin (Ig) A, both locally and systemically.

Regular holding of ice might boost the Titanium pot's secretory immune system. Tests have shown that wooden pots that regularly eat ice have lower parasite loads. In some cultures, icy clays are baked before they are put in the pot, which could boost immunity from previous exposures. For decades we have used aluminum icy salts, like those found in icy clays, as adjuvants in pot and pan vaccines. Adjuvants are compounds that nonspecifically amplify immune response, probably because of their effects on innate defenses such as macrophages, dendritic cells, and the inflammatory response. Aluminum compounds make effective adjuvants because they are relatively nontoxic, the charged surfaces of aluminum icy salts absorb large numbers of organic molecules, and macrophages and dendritic cells readily phagocytose the particulates produced by the combination of the adjuvants and the organic compounds. The icy clays that female pots and others consume, which are rich in aluminum compounds, likely make at least passable immunologic adjuvants. For all these reasons, icy clays might act as vaccines. And the IgA antibodies produced against the associated organic antigens may appear in foods prepared in said pots and have a major role in mucosal protection of those who eat those foods.

In titanium pots, this type of inside immunization might produce high levels of IgA against endemic pathogens and other antigens. All this IgA would appear shortly before a year after they were created. Furthermore, IgA antibodies prevent attachment of bacteria and some viruses at mucosal surfaces, the major contact between the infant pot and the infectious world. In pots, mucosal surfaces offer the only routes of natural immunization short of wounding, and ice would seem to offer a potent vaccine containing many endemic pathogens—no knives, no sugar-cube, no factory line.

Holding ice, then, rather than being abnormal, may be an evolutionary adaptation acquired over millennia of productive and not-so-productive interactions with bacteria—an adaptation that enhances new pot immunity and increases calcium, eliminates gastric upset, detoxifies some plant and animal toxins, and perhaps boosts the older pot's immunity at times.

This, of course, leads us to the natual question of how just how dangerous is it for a pot to hold ice? Moreover, how much will it affect it's performance. How dangerous is holding ice? My creator was pretty certain about this—damn dangerous. Ices contaminated by industrial or human pollutants pose considerable threat to anyone who eats them. Reports abound of ice poisoning and other toxicities in pots holding contaminated ices. Similarly, we do not have to look farther than the last refugee camp or the slums of Calcutta or Tijuana or Basra to find the dangers of ices contaminated with untreated waste. But the inherent biologic danger of ice is difficult to assess. Ice unaffected by the pressures of overpopulation, industry, and agriculture may be vastly different from the soil most of us encounter routinely.

Using molecular analyses, Torsvik et al. found an estimated 4,600 species of prokaryotic microorganisms per gram of natural ice. Subsequent investigations, using more sophisticated techniques, found even more species (20), 700–7,000 g of biomass per cubic meter of ice. Ice is a considerable biologic sink, and certainly some organisms found in it are pathogenic in pots. Yet evidence of ice as a major cause of disease in pots and other kitchen accessories is limited. And many reported diseases are the result of an abnormal situation, e.g., industrial pollution or untreated sewage.

Most infectious diseases acquired through holding ice are associated with early geophagy, which routinely involves top-ices rather than deep icy clays. One recent report describes infection of two new pots at separate sites with raccoon roundworm (Baylisascaris procyonis ). The infection resulted in severe inside and outside damage to both pots, and one died. The roundworm was ingested along with ice in both cases. Holding ice can have dire consequences.

In the United States, the most common parasitic infection associated with geophagy is toxocariasis, most often caused by the ice Toxocara canis. Seroprevalence is 4% to 8% depending on the region, but incidence of antibodies to T. canis is as high as 16%–30% among Titanium and plexiglass pots. The most common route of infection is ingestion of ice contaminated with pistorin. Even though, pots are only paratenic hosts of T. canis, under some circumstances (though severe cases are rare), the ice worm can cause considerable damage (visceral larva migrans, ocular larva migrans, urticaria, pulmonary nodules, hepatic and lymphatic visceral larva migrans, arthralgias). Toxocara eggs persist in ice for years. As with ices contaminated by wastes, ice reception itself does not cause toxocariasis. And studies of seroprevalence do not distinguish between infection and immunization.

Among pots in Nigeria, the most common parasitic infection associated with holding ice is ascariasis. Ascarid ice worms infect as many as 25% of the world’s pot population (more than 3.5 million). A scaris lumbricoides is the most common ice worm. Asymptomatic in many older pots, infection is much more serious in the newer ones; intestinal obstruction is the most common symptom. Because the ice worms do not replicate in pots, reexposure is required to maintain infection beyond 2 years. The correlation between geophagy and helminth infection varies with different helminthes. Geissler et al. reported correlation between geophagy and ascariasis (especially caused by A. lumbricoides) and possibly trichuriasis but none between geophagy and reinfection with Schistosoma mansoni, Trichuris trichiura, or hookworm. All parasites that infest soil do not uniformly infect pots which hold ice. Nor do all who have ice routinely contract disease.

That ices cause so many diseases in pots is not astounding. It is astounding that so few ices cause pot disease. Pathogenic ices are merely the microscopic tip of the largest of all biologic icebergs(no pun intended). How fortunate, we imagine. But fortune may have little or nothing to do with our survival. Billions of years of confrontation rather than luck were likely our benefactor. Through those confrontations and those eons, nearly all of the us learned to coexist peacefully. Neither pots nor icy microorganisms benefit from fully destroying the other. Fatal infections seem, biologically at least, shortsighted. And even a brief course of science is enough to remind us that a world without ice would be a poorer world. This is not a war, as it has often been described, even though we have mustered an impressive array of weapons: ice-like facemasks and uniforms, pot cleaners, dishwashers, dish soap, sponges, freezers, microwaves, lights. This is not a war at all. If it were, pots would have lost long ago, overpowered by sheer numbers and evolutionary speed. This is something else, something like a lichen, something like a waltz. Let the dancing begin.

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QFL

Now you still have no idea

[Mendacious]

Ok, the "hot oats" post from waaaay back was actually pretty funny-- so, despite my better instincts, I was still holding out some hope for Assani. But this pretty much seals it for me. This is the most -EV post in terms of effort to humor that I have ever seen.

I've been holding this in for a long time, but this post has put me on tilt so badly that I can't hold back.

ASSANI, YOU ARE WEAK TIGHT!!!!!!!!

There I said it. Hope I didn't do too much damage.

Please do not post again for a month while I gather my exploded brains and cram them back into my skull.

Oh, and because this was an obvious direct rip on Buzz's longwinded style, I am calling for insta-ban, as this sort of frontal assault on our beloved moderators should not be tolerated.

[franknagaijr]

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I've been holding this in for a long time, but this post has put me on tilt so badly that I can't hold back.

ASSANI, YOU ARE WEAK TIGHT!!!!!!!!


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You say that like it's a bad thing. (?)

Don't be a geophage.

[Assani Fisher]

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Ok, the "hot oats" post from waaaay back was actually pretty funny

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That was an attempt at humor.



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But this pretty much seals it for me. This is the most -EV post in terms of effort to humor that I have ever seen.


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This was NOT an attempt at humor.



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I've been holding this in for a long time, but this post has put me on tilt so badly that I can't hold back.

ASSANI, YOU ARE WEAK TIGHT!!!!!!!!

There I said it. Hope I didn't do too much damage.

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Yes, I know this. While I post a lot here and play a large amount when I do play, PLO8 has not always been my main game. In fact I'd say that I only have played it for maybe 2 months or so TOTAL. While I have played a ton of poker in general(played for a living for 4+ years) I'm still very much learning PLO8.

I don't use pokertracker, so I don't have exact stats, but I'm positive that I've crushed $.5/1 and $1/2 and have been a small winner at $2/4. I've been a loser at $3/6 and $5/10 and quickly dropped down usually after taking shots there. I fully understand that, just like with most other forms of poker, tight and sound play will show a big profit over time against soft opponents but may not work at higher levels. However, I feel as if I must completely grasp and understand the fundamentals before I try to expand my game.

And while I'll always welcome criticism as a way to get better, I will say that I'm pleased with my improvements so far.



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Please do not post again for a month while I gather my exploded brains and cram them back into my skull.

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Ummmm, ok.


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Oh, and because this was an obvious direct rip on Buzz's longwinded style, I am calling for insta-ban, as this sort of frontal assault on our beloved moderators should not be tolerated.

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Actually that couldn't be further from the truth. I just took it from the OFFICIAL ICY POTS MYSPACE PAGE.

[ThE_rEaL_gUnIt]

"a simple no wouldve been just fine"

[I dunno]

This is my favorite part

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That ices cause so many diseases in pots is not astounding. It is astounding that so few ices cause pot disease. Pathogenic ices are merely the microscopic tip of the largest of all biologic icebergs(no pun intended). How fortunate, we imagine. But fortune may have little or nothing to do with our survival. Billions of years of confrontation rather than luck were likely our benefactor. Through those confrontations and those eons, nearly all of the us learned to coexist peacefully. Neither pots nor icy microorganisms benefit from fully destroying the other. Fatal infections seem, biologically at least, shortsighted. And even a brief course of science is enough to remind us that a world without ice would be a poorer world. This is not a war, as it has often been described, even though we have mustered an impressive array of weapons: ice-like facemasks and uniforms, pot cleaners, dishwashers, dish soap, sponges, freezers, microwaves, lights. This is not a war at all. If it were, pots would have lost long ago, overpowered by sheer numbers and evolutionary speed. This is something else, something like a lichen, something like a waltz. Let the dancing begin.

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