Consistency, Bah Humbug

[luckyme]

It a reasonable bet that e thread will prod an 'inconsistency' claim by a poster ( as well as the usual 'nazi' comparison). I confess that most of the time I don't see what relevance the inconsistency objection has.

Situation A has some resemblance to Situation B, yet the poster may come to very different positions on them. Any inconsistency objection would have to be based on the some universal application claim such as contradictory ones in the premises or ??

For example, what is the logical error if two separate arguments claim that it's ok to eat dogs but not ok to squash spiders?

Can somebody clarify this consistency bogeyman for me?

luckyme

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Can somebody clarify this consistency bogeyman for me?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, its a mistake by people who think all beliefs are derived from some framwork rather than largely discovered by introspection.

chez

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can somebody clarify this consistency bogeyman for me?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, its a mistake by people who think all beliefs are derived from some framwork rather than largely discovered by introspection.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Whew. I thounght it just me missing some logical/philosophical point. So, unless there is some prize I'm unaware of for consistency, or a point award system, I'll continue to skim those arguments when they arise and wait for one that deals with the specific case under analysis.
thanks, luckyme

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can somebody clarify this consistency bogeyman for me?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, its a mistake by people who think all beliefs are derived from some framwork rather than largely discovered by introspection.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Whew. I thounght it just me missing some logical/philosophical point. So, unless there is some prize I'm unaware of for consistency, or a point award system, I'll continue to skim those arguments when they arise and wait for one that deals with the specific case under analysis.
thanks, luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

I think stealing is good and correct for me to steal from others, except I think that it is wrong for others to steal from me. I'm glad we both agree that consistency is unimportant. I will be visting your house soon when you are not home as there may be some things there that I desire. lol

Logic is the study of the consitency of beliefs.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Introdu..._Inconsistency

MODULE: Values
TUTORIAL U06: Reflective equilibrium
U06.1 Consistency in morality
Consistency plays an extremely important role in moral reasoning. Whatever the basis of morality is supposed to be, presumably we should ensure that our moral beliefs are consistent. For example, consistency is an important requirement of justice and fairness. One of the most important principles in the rule of law is that we should treat like cases alike. If someone goes to prison for stealing, it would be inconsistent and wrong for us to let another thief walks free, if the two cases are alike in all relevant respects. Similarly, if we treat someone better than another person without justification, we might be criticized for being discriminatory.

http://philosophy.hku.hk/think/value/reflect.php


MODULE: Values
TUTORIAL U07: Analogies in morality
Everyone of us holds many beliefs. By and large, we hope that our beliefs are not irrational or unreasonable. And the more strongly we hold a set of beliefs, the stronger we hope that they are not irrational. Consistency is the minimum requirement of rationality. If we have a set of beliefs which are at odds with each other, rationality demands us to revise them so that the whole set becomes internally consistent. Most of us hold some beliefs on moral/ethical issues (e.g., such as whether suicide is morally wrong, or whether someone should be denied of the opportunity of education just because of his/her sex or skin color). Consistency plays one of the most important roles in moral reasoning (indeed reasoning of any kind). So if we do hold some moral beliefs, we should at least make sure that those beliefs are consistent with each other (putting aside for the moment the further question whether those beliefs are also true).

http://philosophy.hku.hk/think/value/analogy.php

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can somebody clarify this consistency bogeyman for me?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, its a mistake by people who think all beliefs are derived from some framwork rather than largely discovered by introspection.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Whew. I thounght it just me missing some logical/philosophical point. So, unless there is some prize I'm unaware of for consistency, or a point award system, I'll continue to skim those arguments when they arise and wait for one that deals with the specific case under analysis.
thanks, luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

I think stealing is good and correct for me to steal from others, except I think that it is wrong for others to steal from me. I'm glad we both agree that consistency is unimportant. I will be visting your house soon when you are not home as there may be some things there that I desire. lol

Logic is the study of the consitency of beliefs.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Introdu..._Inconsistency

[/ QUOTE ]

I fail to see any inconsistency in your views. Perhaps because you didn't present any argument for either of them. It reads like, "apples are red and I enjoy eating them. Stop signs are red but I don't eat them, so I am inconsistent." I'm sure there is more to your arriving at your views on theft.

luckyme

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
ODULE: Values
TUTORIAL U07: Analogies in morality
Everyone of us holds many beliefs. By and large, we hope that our beliefs are not irrational or unreasonable. And the more strongly we hold a set of beliefs, the stronger we hope that they are not irrational. Consistency is the minimum requirement of rationality. If we have a set of beliefs which are at odds with each other, rationality demands us to revise them so that the whole set becomes internally consistent. Most of us hold some beliefs on moral/ethical issues (e.g., such as whether suicide is morally wrong, or whether someone should be denied of the opportunity of education just because of his/her sex or skin color). Consistency plays one of the most important roles in moral reasoning (indeed reasoning of any kind). So if we do hold some moral beliefs, we should at least make sure that those beliefs are consistent with each other (putting aside for the moment the further question whether those beliefs are also true).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, I posted before this edit.
It explains some of my problem ... a paucity of beliefs.
I don't hold a belief about suicide or educational equity, I derive my position on some situation based on all the factors that I can dredge up and weigh. A similar looking situation with different ( sometimes even slightly) variables may deliver me a view that seems different than the prior one, but it's not ... it's a position on a different situation.

luckyme

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can somebody clarify this consistency bogeyman for me?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, its a mistake by people who think all beliefs are derived from some framwork rather than largely discovered by introspection.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Whew. I thounght it just me missing some logical/philosophical point. So, unless there is some prize I'm unaware of for consistency, or a point award system, I'll continue to skim those arguments when they arise and wait for one that deals with the specific case under analysis.
thanks, luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

I think stealing is good and correct for me to steal from others, except I think that it is wrong for others to steal from me. I'm glad we both agree that consistency is unimportant. I will be visting your house soon when you are not home as there may be some things there that I desire. lol

Logic is the study of the consitency of beliefs.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Introdu..._Inconsistency

[/ QUOTE ]

I fail to see any inconsistency in your views. Perhaps because you didn't present any argument for either of them. It reads like, "apples are red and I enjoy eating them. Stop signs are red but I don't eat them, so I am inconsistent." I'm sure there is more to your arriving at your views on theft.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

I have revised my post, go check it out.

p.s. The inconsistency is that person A is allowed to steal from all and no one is allowed to steal from person A.

Person A can steal from person B yet person B can not steal from person A, therefore person A does not hold consistent views on stealing.

If you don't get that then maybe you won't understand the info I edited in either.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ODULE: Values
TUTORIAL U07: Analogies in morality
Everyone of us holds many beliefs. By and large, we hope that our beliefs are not irrational or unreasonable. And the more strongly we hold a set of beliefs, the stronger we hope that they are not irrational. Consistency is the minimum requirement of rationality. If we have a set of beliefs which are at odds with each other, rationality demands us to revise them so that the whole set becomes internally consistent. Most of us hold some beliefs on moral/ethical issues (e.g., such as whether suicide is morally wrong, or whether someone should be denied of the opportunity of education just because of his/her sex or skin color). Consistency plays one of the most important roles in moral reasoning (indeed reasoning of any kind). So if we do hold some moral beliefs, we should at least make sure that those beliefs are consistent with each other (putting aside for the moment the further question whether those beliefs are also true).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, I posted before this edit.
It explains some of my problem ... a paucity of beliefs.
I don't hold a belief about suicide or educational equity, I derive my position on some situation based on all the factors that I can dredge up and weigh. A similar looking situation with different ( sometimes even slightly) variables may deliver me a view that seems different than the prior one, but it's not ... it's a position on a different situation.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

So then that is not inconsistent. But if the situations are the same it is inconsistent.

Morality is a funny thing.

I am not inconsistent in believing that person A (me) is wrong to steal from everyone else while everyone else is wrong to steal from me because of my unique situation. I really really need to be able to steal much more than any other person because of intrinsic qualities within myself that are unique to me. And I also need to have no others steal from me because of my unique qualities that differ slightly from everyone else.

Therefore my beliefs are not inconsistent.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ODULE: Values
TUTORIAL U07: Analogies in morality
Everyone of us holds many beliefs. By and large, we hope that our beliefs are not irrational or unreasonable. And the more strongly we hold a set of beliefs, the stronger we hope that they are not irrational. Consistency is the minimum requirement of rationality. If we have a set of beliefs which are at odds with each other, rationality demands us to revise them so that the whole set becomes internally consistent. Most of us hold some beliefs on moral/ethical issues (e.g., such as whether suicide is morally wrong, or whether someone should be denied of the opportunity of education just because of his/her sex or skin color). Consistency plays one of the most important roles in moral reasoning (indeed reasoning of any kind). So if we do hold some moral beliefs, we should at least make sure that those beliefs are consistent with each other (putting aside for the moment the further question whether those beliefs are also true).

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, I posted before this edit.
It explains some of my problem ... a paucity of beliefs.
I don't hold a belief about suicide or educational equity, I derive my position on some situation based on all the factors that I can dredge up and weigh. A similar looking situation with different ( sometimes even slightly) variables may deliver me a view that seems different than the prior one, but it's not ... it's a position on a different situation.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

So then that is not inconsistent. But if the situations are the same it is inconsistent.

Morality is a funny thing.

I am not inconsistent in believing that person A (me) is wrong to steal from everyone else while everyone else is wrong to steal from me because of my unique situation. I really really need to be able to steal much more than any other person because of intrinsic qualities within myself that are unique to me. And I also need to have no others steal from me because of my unique qualities that differ slightly from everyone else.

Therefore my beliefs are not inconsistent.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's usually only in artificial variable-restricted situations that the "situations are the same". In real life, it virtually never is that way.

Your stealing would only be inconsistent if you had a belief that "all stealing is wrong", but since you obviously don't have that belief, np.
a) It's ok for me ( a starving shepard, say) to steal.
b) It's not ok for Bill Gates in the Ritz Dining Room to steal.

where you fit in between those variables I don't know but those two are not inconsistent beliefs about stealing, because they're not about stealing.

luckyme

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I think stealing is good and correct for me to steal from others, except I think that it is wrong for others to steal from me. I'm glad we both agree that consistency is unimportant. I will be visting your house soon when you are not home as there may be some things there that I desire. lol

[/ QUOTE ]
Who said consistency was unimportant? I'm a huge fan of consistency but its a mistake to claim that consistent things are inconsistent.


nothing in your links suggest anything different.

chez