I do this a lot now

HOWMANY · #1 08-23-2007, 07:57 AM

Unknown villain basically. I probably should have bet/3bet this turn card but I didn't so then I tried this out as it has been working quite well since I started doing it.

PokerStars 15/30 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.66 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.33 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (5.33 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks

timoK · #2 08-23-2007, 08:44 AM

I dont see how any (decent?) villain who 3-bets preflop with an ace cant c-bet that turn.
by checking he screams: "I dont have a spade and I dont have an ace"

if villain has a pair the river helps him. He should valuebet any set here if checked to -> gotcha!

if you donk the turn and villain has no Ace and no flushdraw you can get 2BB max out of him (if he calls down)

but if you donk and villain raises he has like Ax with flush draw, made flush, flushdraw+gutshot straight most of the time?

kiddo · #3 08-23-2007, 08:47 AM

If u bet river he will call with a wider range then those hands he will bet if u check. Against an unknown I would bet since turncheck do look like he got nothing and dont want to bet with nothing so I dont count on him betting river. But Im interested in hearing why u check and why its better then a bet.

timoK · #4 08-23-2007, 09:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If u bet river he will call with a wider range then those hands he will bet if u check. Against an unknown I would bet since turncheck do look like he got nothing and dont want to bet with nothing so I dont count on him betting river...

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont agree with this.

To define villains hand: KK-77 KQs KQo KJs (no ace and no TT as he would have bet the turn)
KK 6 combos
QQ 6 combos
JJ 6 combos
99 6 combos
88 6 combos
77 6 combos
KQs 3 combos (no flush)
KJs 3 combos (no flush)
KQo 6 combos (no flush draw)

If I was villain I wont call a river donk with K high, 77,88,99 which leaves me with 18 combos to call.

but if hero checks to me I def bet KK-JJ, I might bet 99-77 and maybe I bluff any other hand

gehrig · #5 08-23-2007, 01:51 PM

ppl suck and will bet/call like sixes on the river

once u get to the river like this cr'ing is the clear play

it doesnt have to work every time

geormiet · #6 08-23-2007, 02:08 PM

Yeah a lot of the time that he checks behind he would've folded to a riverbet anyway so you don't lose value like it seems when he checks behind.

The times not to do this is when you've got a sd monkey calling you with KQ and KJ here.

surfdoc · #7 08-23-2007, 02:43 PM

I don't mind it at all and make this play not too infrequently. I really like the metagame consequences when he bet/calls JJ-KK here and you basically make him scared to put in thin river valuebets for the rest of his life.

milesdyson · #8 08-23-2007, 02:51 PM

dont remember the last time i played wa/wb on this board. i just c/r flop and fling monkey poo on the way to showdown.

geormiet · #9 08-23-2007, 02:58 PM

really? I check call the flop here at least 90%

Victor · #10 08-23-2007, 03:11 PM

this doesnt work if villain is a very good player bc hes just putting one bet in the river but in general this river cr spot is the nuts.