77 line check

Burnsabre · #1 11-28-2007, 01:42 PM

BB is a nitty TAG, 22/16/2, havent played with him much but seems pretty ABC. Button is SLPP, 40/3/.5.
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10SB, 3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button folds.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

I think this is close to a flop fold. The turn I'm pretty much in the same situation as the flop and I wanna fold but can't quite hit the button. On the river, the straight card came giving me a very likely pair and he fires again, so it seems like a pretty safe fold then.

Oink · #2 11-28-2007, 01:55 PM

I am not folding the flop

Looking at a call you get 11:1. Likely 12:1 here as the most likely action by the button is to overcall. Of course he will raise behind you but then you can call or fold if BB 3-balls and save a turn Big Bet compared to how the hand played out.

Anyhoo with 11:1 and prolly a little bit better you can continue here. Its huge you have the 7 of diamonds. This means that not only do you have a bdfd but when you hit a set you wont improve to the 2nd best behind a flush.

I'd say you have about 3 outs on average when behind on the flop and occasionally you have the best hand.

Folding here should not be an option IMO

Now just throwing it out there. Since BB is nit straightforward and since AK is in his range I would consider raising the flop for protection/info. The good thing here is that BB will play his hand face up telling you exactly if he has QQ, KK, AA or AK.

All in all I think you played it fine. Folding the river is good. He isnt betting AK very often IMO.

FlopYouDead · #3 11-28-2007, 02:13 PM

He has a bdsd too. He has at least 4 outs. With the chance that his hand is good this can never be a flop fold.

I would raise flop. I don't see how a worse hand can 3b given circumstances. Calling flop and leaving 3rd player in just seems to be asking to be outdrawn. Our hand needs protection from overs and bigger diamonds. Btn will often have better backdoors and we want him GONE! (on your bike...)

aargh57 · #4 11-28-2007, 02:19 PM

How do you figure 4 outs? A 1 card bdfd isn't nearly as good as a 2 card one especially 7 high and the bdsd is a 1 gapper. I agree with Oink's assessment that it's a 3 outer.

Oink · #5 11-28-2007, 02:24 PM

Assuming a scenario in which button folds hero has 12.3% eq vs QQ, KK, AA. Thats about 3 outs

Now add AdKd and AQs and Hero has about 14.7% eq; about 3.5 outs.

In any case. Folding if it gets 3-bet is a mistake IMO. In particular considering the great implied vs KK and AA

numbnuts007 · #6 11-28-2007, 02:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming a scenario in which button folds hero has 12.3% eq vs QQ, KK, AA. Thats about 3 outs

Now add AdKd and AQs and Hero has about 14.7% eq; about 3.5 outs.

In any case. Folding if it gets 3-bet is a mistake IMO. In particular considering the great implied vs KK and AA

[/ QUOTE ]

So if we raise, get it heads up, bb 3-bets and we call, bb leads turn, you think we should still call? You can't be thinking sd if it gets 3-bet on the flop can you?

I know, I know, stop folding.

Realyn · #7 11-28-2007, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming a scenario in which button folds hero has 12.3% eq vs QQ, KK, AA. Thats about 3 outs

Now add AdKd and AQs and Hero has about 14.7% eq; about 3.5 outs.

In any case. Folding if it gets 3-bet is a mistake IMO. In particular considering the great implied vs KK and AA

[/ QUOTE ]correct me if im wrong, but you are talking about the equity for both the turn and the river, right? so hero would pay 3 small bets to win 17(10+5+2). Thats 3:17 + 4-5 implied.

my point is, u cant say hero has 12 % equity and needs to call ONE small bet with the pot offering 15. To make full use from those 13 % equity he needs to call 3

Realyn · #8 11-28-2007, 02:40 PM

edit:missread

Apanage · #9 11-28-2007, 02:06 PM

For me this is a raise or fold flop.If you get 3-bet you can safely lay down your hand IMO.

Oink · #10 11-28-2007, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For me this is a raise or fold flop.If you get 3-bet you can safely lay down your hand IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many outs would you give yourself when he 3-bets?

Against QQ, KK, AA its more than 2 on average. Maybe even 3. So folding getting 15:1 is close if not a mistake