Player responsibility to correct minor(?) dealer error?

EWillers · #1 10-13-2007, 05:12 AM

I play a lot of NL live. I have a system for making bets. When the bet I want to make is less than 16 chips, I go ahead and cut out the exact number of checks I bet.

When the bet I want to make is between 16 and 25 chips (25 is a maximum handful for me) I simply grab about how many I want to bet overhand and put them into the pot. I figure I'm not gonna be more than 2 or 3 chips off and it's not that big of a deal.

When I want to bet more than 25 chips I slide the stack(s) into the pot. Again, I feel I only need to be within a few inches of how much I want to bet.

The potential problem arises in the middle (16-25 chip) category. When I put out what feels like 22 or 23 chips or so sometimes the dealer will just assume it's 20 chips and announce $100 (or whatever 20 chips would constitue). In a $5 or $10 chip game this isn't a huge deal (though many, not entirely basslessly, would argue it's not always insignificant). I hope to play in bigger games at some point.

When a dealer mis-announces my bet like this, is it my obligation to correct him prior to other players acting?

In anticipation of questions about why I bet like this, I have two reasons.

1) (and the dominant reason) Reading Navarro, I became really paranoid about my motions at the table. I see this as an extention of "robotic" play. I don't want to be fumbling around trying to create 20 chips stack(s) and cutting lots of checks into the pot. Also, if my opponent asks how much the bet is, I pretty much force him to speak.

2) I actually see this as having a net effect of being faster than the alternative. Frequently, the larger bets are never called or even contemplated. The time I don't spend trying to come up with, say, 55 chips or somethin' is greater than the time spent when they do ask how much that is and the dealer has to count it down.

youtalkfunny · #2 10-13-2007, 05:34 AM

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When a dealer mis-announces my bet like this, is it my obligation to correct him prior to other players acting?

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Yes. If you don't want to speak (a notion that seems silly to me), maybe shaking your head disapprovingly at the dealer, while scowling, will get the point across that he's wrong. Lotsa luck with that.

Of course, a good dealer won't need to be corrected, because he won't announce an amount. He'll let your stack of chips sit there, and he'll remain as silent as a cigar store Indian. If an opponent asks, "How much is that?", a good dealer will not assume anything, and will count it down.

Of course, if more than 5% of the dealers out there were "good", we wouldn't be having this discussion. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

bav · #3 10-13-2007, 05:51 AM

My answer was about to mirror YTF. 'Course if you refuse to speak, when the dealer says "100" and an opponent puts in 100 and the dealer quickly sweeps 'em all into the pot, you're going to be left looking pretty foolish as you sputter "but but but...it was 110". And if you wait until the player says "call" and then say "it's 110" you're proving you knew the dealer miscalled the amount of the wager and you're leaving yourself somewhat at the mercy of the dealer and floor to decide the fate of the wager. I don't really see that much of an upside to remaining completely mute.

RR · #4 10-13-2007, 12:35 PM

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My answer was about to mirror YTF. 'Course if you refuse to speak, when the dealer says "100" and an opponent puts in 100 and the dealer quickly sweeps 'em all into the pot, you're going to be left looking pretty foolish as you sputter "but but but...it was 110". And if you wait until the player says "call" and then say "it's 110" you're proving you knew the dealer miscalled the amount of the wager and you're leaving yourself somewhat at the mercy of the dealer and floor to decide the fate of the wager. I don't really see that much of an upside to remaining completely mute.

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As noted above the dealer should not be calling out the bet. After he is asked (or decides to just blurt it out) if he says the wrong amount you have an obligation to immediately speak up. If he says the wrong amount, but it is close to what you have out there there is a good chance that will become the bet amount if the let the world pass you by.

pfapfap · #5 10-13-2007, 01:29 PM

You will have far fewer problems if you simply and plainly announce the amount of the wager before you put chips into the pot.

GTL · #6 10-13-2007, 02:56 PM

change your routine. generally if i place a stack into the pot that isn't exactly 10 or 20 chips, i chop it into smaller even stacks. If i'm betting 18 chips i would put out the stack then chop into into 3 stacks of 5 5 5 and then toss the odd chips out on the side. you look cool doing this so it serves multiple purposes.

MicroBob · #7 10-13-2007, 03:18 PM

since he's grabbing the stack like that I'm guessing he isn't even sure how much he bet which makes this a slightly more interesting problem.

But the easier solution is to just cut the checks fairly quickly when you place them out there.
You can even just cut the stack in half and leave it there so it is a bit more obvious that the bet might be more than $100.
If you have more than a few hours experience of live-play you should be able to place a normal size bet out there rather routinely without any fumbling or giving of tells or anything like that.

Brad1970 · #8 10-13-2007, 03:30 PM

Yes. It is all the player's at the table responsibility to correct the dealer if they believe he or she has made an error in order to protect the integrity of the game.

EWillers · #9 10-13-2007, 04:57 PM

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since he's grabbing the stack like that I'm guessing he isn't even sure how much he bet which makes this a slightly more interesting problem.

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This is the case. When I plan to bet more than 16 checks, I always just go by feel (in the case of 17-25) or sight (in the case of more than 25).

I've said something before. The dealer says "100" or (worse) "is that $100?". Usually, I say something to the effect of "I don't know how much it is". This goes against what I'm trying to do in a hand though.

I know it sounds silly, but after Navarro I really think consistent habits and being conscious of all that you do during a hand can become quite important against certain opponents. (Fortunately enough for me, in the games I currently frequent, these players don't exist. In the future, however, I hope to play big enough where they just might.)

pfapfap · #10 10-13-2007, 05:29 PM

Consistent habits are good, but so is comfort in a cardroom. You absolutely need to learn how to state your bet plainly and handle chips with ease (ps, I don't think anybody calls them checks/cheques anymore, much as I prefer that term). From what you've described, your consistent habits are sure to draw a lot of attention. By learning how to manage the tools of the game, you'll more blend into the crowd.

This isn't a minor error, this is the amount of your bet, something that is of absolute importance. It is not the dealer's job to guess how much you want to bet.

State your bet amount. Put out chips. Simple.