Crossfit FAQ

[shemp]

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"They emphasize as some of their main tenets full body coordination but do not test it in their weight lifting total?"

The dead lift is a full body movement. It is expected to be easily the largest single component of anyone's total.

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Okay. Good so they got one right. Back to the military press. Why would you eschew one of your tenets when doing a benchmark that should be representative of your training?

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You've just found another way to repeat the same falsity.

The benchmark does test a full body movement, so it does not, in fact, eschew the main tenet that full body movements are central to functional fitness.

Further, said full body movement is the largest single component of said benchmark.

That the benchmark has other components that are lower and upper body centric does in no way invalidate the previous two sentences.

I'm keeping it simple here. There are more things to say, but it seems kind of pointless. As for your general rant: Well, okay?

Rippetoe provides some of his rationale for why he developed the metric the way he did:

http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...06_CFTotal.pdf

[Rearden]

Thremp,

Could you flesh out your main issues with Crossfit (the three points you've brought up)?... you did cover them somewhat in your opening but the rest of the posts in this thread have been on kipping/push press logic. I haven't tried Crossfit and disagree with some of what I've come across from them but I'm assuming you've examined this more in depth and am curious on your take (and then the responses of any Crossfit devotees to your arguements). I think this thread has a lot of value and, though I can see the purpose of the kipping and shoulder press arguement, I dont see why it should get totally bogged down in just those debates.

[jah7_fsu1]

I'll admit I have just skimmed this thread so far, as I'm getting ready to study for a final tomorrow. I also am really unfamiliar with the Crossfit program.

Hopefully tomorrow I can read this thread fully and also go over and examine what exactly Crossfit is supposed to be about. Before that I have two questions:

1. Does Crossfit have any type of periodization? When I look at the "workouts of the day" which I've basically just done a few times it seems like a bunch of exercises thrown together for time. I don't like the approach of doing a bunch of compound movements for a hurried amount of time. I don't see the rationale of doing something like 50 cleans or whatever either as I think it can be pretty dangerous and seems like it would lead to poor form as the session wore on.

2. Not really a question, but from what I've seen on the "workouts of the day" none of this would come close to a well designed CT program for increasing muscle mass.

3. Looked at the workouts of the day for this week: 1- I don't like "Diane" (who does 21 reps of deadlift and what is the purpose?) Then Thursday is:

Complete twenty rounds of:
5 Pull-ups
10 Push-ups
15 Squats

So 250 squats? 100 pullups? I'm just not sure I see the rationale in something like this. It seems like an unnecessary amount of volume, and I'd imagine the DOMS would be unbearable if you used any type of weight at all on squats.

Sorry, just some random quick questions and thoughts! Don't know if they have been discussed yet. I gotta study, but I'll try and check this out in detail tomorrow [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[SmileyEH]

Jah, most of your criticims are addressed in their literature. Not that you won't still hold the same opinions, but crossfit is much more than the WOD.

[jah7_fsu1]

Smiley: I will look at that tomorrow, thanks.

[shemp]

I'm not an expert on fitness generally or crossfit specifically, I'm only responding because there seems a bit of a void that I might fill. But Crossfit is not just the WOD-- the wod is serviceable generic programming giving a taste of Crossfit and which, like hot chicks driving themselves to the point of turning green and puking in fitness porn videos, is about marketing.

Squats in the present instance refers to an unweighted squat of your body.

I won't pretend to speak to the benefits of what are referred to as metabolic conditioning workouts or benchmarks other than to say that I've found them challenging, fun and revealing when I've tried them-- and that as far as an ignoramus like me can tell is one of the keys to Crossfit: is that it can get people to workout at all, and get them to keep score/keep a workout log/journal.

[shemp]

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Jah, most of your criticims are addressed in their literature. Not that you won't still hold the same opinions, but crossfit is much more than the WOD.

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I like this answer *much* better than my long winded one, but will leave my own unedited.

[Thremp]

Rearden,

Not so much in depth. I'm definitely not a Crossfit junkie. I'll expand on the point a little.

1) Absurdity - Better for BB than BB?!? They use asinine comps to validate this. Such as "We have big people". Yes, I have a friend who is 6'4 230. He is huge. He rarely lifts weights, he gets drunk a ton, and is insane. He's also strong like bull. Why? Genetics. If Crossfit was so great they'd have a few guys who could compete at BB contests, but as it is they have none. Crossfit does not address basic points such as symmetry which are crucial to BB. I think we can settle that (as been agreed above as idiotic). Also the whole functional aspect of Crossfit is tired and boring. What % of Crossfitters workout so they can perform their jobs better? How many are guys wanting to get in shape or just look better? Lastly, why are you only allowed to be on one [censored] diet at all? And why isn't it a normal Zone. Why do they make up their own rules for it? It seems strange to "Crossfitize" everything for their programs.
2) Crossfit doesn't seem to want people to try other methodology despite volume-intensity periodization changes widely being considered amazing for gaining size and strength. Doing the same program for years will likely result in your growing and performing quite well. But would it be better than rotating your program every so often? Likely not.
3) The aforementioned problem I have with the crossfit total where Rippetoe took a PL total and swapped a strict standing press for a bench and it is magically better. Kipping is suppose to be functional and increase power output. Why don't they increase power output in all their workouts? Why... If I curl my toes while kipping, I'll increase power output as well.... I'm gonna stop here. I can't "analyze" anymore of this drivel. I stopped reading their foundations page at around "triathletes are not athletes"

Here's another great quote: "We’ve used our same routines for elderly individuals with heart disease and cage fighters one month out from televised bouts. The needs of Olympic athletes and our grandparents differ by degree not kind."

[J.Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Rearden,

Not so much in depth. I'm definitely not a Crossfit junkie. I'll expand on the point a little.

1) Absurdity - Better for BB than BB?!? They use asinine comps to validate this. Such as "We have big people". Yes, I have a friend who is 6'4 230. He is huge. He rarely lifts weights, he gets drunk a ton, and is insane. He's also strong like bull. Why? Genetics. If Crossfit was so great they'd have a few guys who could compete at BB contests, but as it is they have none. Crossfit does not address basic points such as symmetry which are crucial to BB. I think we can settle that (as been agreed above as idiotic). Also the whole functional aspect of Crossfit is tired and boring. What % of Crossfitters workout so they can perform their jobs better? How many are guys wanting to get in shape or just look better? Lastly, why are you only allowed to be on one [censored] diet at all? And why isn't it a normal Zone. Why do they make up their own rules for it? It seems strange to "Crossfitize" everything for their programs.
2) Crossfit doesn't seem to want people to try other methodology despite volume-intensity periodization changes widely being considered amazing for gaining size and strength. Doing the same program for years will likely result in your growing and performing quite well. But would it be better than rotating your program every so often? Likely not.
3) The aforementioned problem I have with the crossfit total where Rippetoe took a PL total and swapped a strict standing press for a bench and it is magically better. Kipping is suppose to be functional and increase power output. Why don't they increase power output in all their workouts? Why... If I curl my toes while kipping, I'll increase power output as well.... I'm gonna stop here. I can't "analyze" anymore of this drivel. I stopped reading their foundations page at around "triathletes are not athletes"

Here's another great quote: "We’ve used our same routines for elderly individuals with heart disease and cage fighters one month out from televised bouts. The needs of Olympic athletes and our grandparents differ by degree not kind."

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i am going to do a quick address of the issues you discussed. not defend mind you, but give my understanding.

1. better for bodybuilding. not from what i can see, but like i said before, better than what most people do in the gym who are "trying" to bodybuild. they don't have people competing in bb contests because it is exactly who they don't want to be. people who give the illusion of fitness, but not functional fitness. crossfit believes looking fit and being fit are two different things. i tend to agree with this. how do you function? not how do you look.

as far as being tired and boring (the functional part) i truly believe their methodology was concieved for the military, firefighters, mma dudes, police, etc. and is now being "adapted" for the general public so it can be boxed and sold. so yes function is important and also very driving in keeping people working out consistently. i find it much more inspiring to look for improvement (in any of their fitness parameters) than by measuring my arms for the 10th time this month or trying to "look" better. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]
those goals have always been hollow to me and caused me to not work hard once i felt like i looked good enough. whatever that means

the diet issue, hmmmmm, they recommend zone or paleo. what super modifications are implied?? because i havent' really been aware of any.

2. unless i am missing something crossfit encourages you
to use all types of sport and fitness, i sure as hell do.

i just had the discussion about the fitness level of marathoners (my wife is one) and triathletes and said that i could really dominate them in most things fitness related.
obviously in almost all non aerobic endurance things and i can hold my own their against average runners. you know my point.

i don't think crossfit is that off in their opinion that specialists are only fit in a few of the 10 measures of fitness. that is ok for them, but are they truly fit?
the question they raise is who is fitter, the winner of the iron man triathalon or the olympic gold medalist in the decathalon??

i know my answer for about 9 different reasons.

as far as the final quote, what do you disagree with?
improving all aspects of ones fitness and functionality isn't age/gender specific to me. the are trying to not be specialists and improve broad based fitness. is it perfect for someone with very specific goals. no. is it right for almost everyone else. well pretty close i think.

later. J.

[shemp]

Not to get in the way of a good rant, but I read the claim in the faq to be that crossfit is more efficient training for building muscle mass than is bodybuilding without steroids-- that seems different from claiming that crossfit is better for bodybuilding than bodybuilding.

I have zero ability to evaluate that claim. From perusing the site I consider it marketing hype and highly likely that the site founder has some interpretation/qualification for which it is true.