Bulking: Clean Diet?

[jah7_fsu1]

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He's not saying eating donuts all day is the way to go, but if you straight up aren't going to get those extra calories in, eat some [censored] pizza.

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If you aren't getting enough calories in you won't be able to build muscle, that's fine. And I'm not saying you can't drink a beer, can't eat a pizza, etc. Saying those 3 are better than salad, chicken breast, water is terrible advice. His advice in the beginning has no scientific base, and I thought it was important to show a better way to add muscle mass. I feel as if I did it in my first post.

[skunkworks]

jah, it's definitely possible to build muscle while running at a caloric deficit. However, it's not possible to gain overall weight (lol thermodynamics). And I think for people that are having problems gaining muscle mass or weight, they need to shock their systems a bit and loosen up the reigns a bit.

[jah7_fsu1]

It is possible, but you aren't going to gain a lot of muscle mass on a caloric deficit. That isn't really the argument though. Gaining muscle while losing fat is very difficult to do.

My general beef was with his advice that beer, pizza, etc are better foods for building muscle than water, chicken, etc. THAT is horrible advice, no matter how much he tries to save it with his last paragraph.

[1C5]

Meh, I think his point was that 2500 calories (1st meal) vs 300 calories (2nd meal) would be better.

I see where both of you are coming from. I think at this point you are just arguing for the sake of debating.

[jah7_fsu1]

I actually don't see where he is coming from. I don't see how he thinks a clean diet isn't good for bulking (I pointed out why it was), and I don't see how he believes those foods are solid bodybuilding foods. I also don't see (since he never says anything about it) where he disagrees with me. Trust me, I don't need to argue about crap when it comes to fitness/diet I have enough boards designed for that specific topic.

His advice has largely no place for anyone in the fitness world on this topic. You can do it (gain muscle) with a crappy diet, but it isn't near as optimal. You can also lose fat drinking beer and eating pizza a lot, but once again....not optimal.

[kyleb]

Thremp does not think a clean diet isn't good for bulking. He comes off as brash and arrogant, but you really do need to work on reading his posts better.

[jah7_fsu1]

Kyle anyone who reads this is in danger of making huge mistakes:

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But don't shirk a large fatty ribeye, a 6pack of beers and a large pizza. In fact if bulking I'll step out on a limb and say that the aforementioned 3 items together would be far superior to a large dry leafy green salad, a baked chicken breast, and water.

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No wonder Americans are obese. How can anyone read this any other way than what it states. If I'm a newbie and I see that someone thinks pizza, beer, etc. is FAR SUPERIOR to a dry leafy green salad, chicken breast, and water I might think great! Eat what I want to gain muscle, this beer is better for me than water.

THIS reasoning is why I'm glad I'm not so into exercise science anymore.

[kyleb]

Sigh.

[jah7_fsu1]

Wow...I REALIZE he trys to save himself in the end. When he says it's basically overrated (IT ISN'T), when he reccommends pizza, beer instead of Chicken (pointless, unscientific), when he says he drank soda, ate fried foods and uses that as a model for a type of behavior I called him out.

All of that is bad advice. Regardless of what people think he meant, or what his last paragraph said. Please re-read this everyone:

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With all due respect I'm going to have to completely disagree.

A: You can't force your body to grow more MUSCLE by simply consuming more calories. This is a myth. While you need to be eating enough to promote anabolism, you can't EAT EAT EAT and expect to gain more muscle. You will put on bodyfat. More food (more calories) does not equal more muscle growth. In my exercise science classes we called it a protein synthesis limit. I have heard it called others. Very basically the amount of muscle you can build is dependent on your body's capacity to synthesize new muscle tissue from the ingested protein. Assuming you aren't using steroids I don't believe (definitely not aware of any science) that allows you to change this limit.

B: Knowing what I said in A, I will attempt to make an argument for a clean bulk. Let's assume I have 12 months to add "as much muscle" as possible. Let's also assume at the end of those 12 months I want to "look ripped." So a general bulk then cut right? Put on a bunch of fat (and muscle) and then cut that bodyfat out. Something like 9 months of bulking and 3 months of cutting perhaps? Well, most people know it is damn near impossible to cut fat and GAIN muscle. Calorie restriction (needed for fat loss) just isn't very anabolic. So during that cutting phase you aren't adding muscle and might lose some.

C: Your right you need to get the calories in, but the idea that beer and pizza are going to be huge tools in your muscle building garage is just ludicrous. Obviously, I think you can "relax" your diet somewhat when trying to add muscle (I hate calling it bulking), but the implications of going all out crap food need to be known. It's just generally a crappy way to go about any goal unless your goal is obesity or diabetes.

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[Hendricks433]

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Wow...I REALIZE he trys to save himself in the end. When he says it's basically overrated (IT ISN'T), when he reccommends pizza, beer instead of Chicken (pointless, unscientific), when he says he drank soda, ate fried foods and uses that as a model for a type of behavior I called him out.

[/ QUOTE ] you seem to be only picking out what you dont like. You dont seem to be reading his post as a whole. I think he went a little extreme but I see what hes trying to say.