nl cash -- adjusting to limp callers when you're oop

[MasterLJ]

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So you have these donks who are making a theoretical mistake playing small pots in position by limping and then whahahahaha shows up and corrects their mistake by raising junk OOP. nh.

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Disagree.

Opponent has made another mistake, which is that he's telegraphed the weakness of his hand. Hero can/should raise quality hands for equity and to build a bigger pot because they will hit flops hard.

Don't raise junk, but a range of like top 25% is probably worth popping. Sometimes you will win preflop because he will muck that 94o, sometimes it will get checked down and you will win with underpair or high cards, and since opponent's passive he's not going to exploit position properly.

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You cannot safely build large pots vs passive players who have position.

[creedofhubris]

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So you have these donks who are making a theoretical mistake playing small pots in position by limping and then whahahahaha shows up and corrects their mistake by raising junk OOP. nh.

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Disagree.

Opponent has made another mistake, which is that he's telegraphed the weakness of his hand. Hero can/should raise quality hands for equity and to build a bigger pot because they will hit flops hard.

Don't raise junk, but a range of like top 25% is probably worth popping. Sometimes you will win preflop because he will muck that 94o, sometimes it will get checked down and you will win with underpair or high cards, and since opponent's passive he's not going to exploit position properly.

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You cannot safely build large pots vs passive players who have position.

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It depends what he's limping in with. If he's superpassive and is limping in with A4s and KJ and 55, then I agree, you don't want to build pots vs that type of hand in position.

But if he's limping in with Q3o and 85o and 92s (which is more typical) then I'm gonna pop it up and pound away with confidence if I hit TPGK. I want to set up a big turnbet hammerblow. Flop cont bets after popping it up will probably turn only a small profit, but what I'm really looking for is to get a pot-sized bet in on the turn for value with my TPGK hands. It's very difficult to get that big a bet into action OOP vs. a passive opponent in a limped pot; checkraises fail to make big pots when opponent checks behind or bets so small that you can't generate a good-sized checkraise.

[cwar]

In this particular spot that is untrue because they limp with good and bad hands alike. The reason why good players often have a tendency to attack limps like this is because often players will raise good hands and limp weak ones, but this is not the case here.

[creedofhubris]

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In this particular spot that is untrue because they limp with good and bad hands alike. The reason why good players often have a tendency to attack limps like this is because often players will raise good hands and limp weak ones, but this is not the case here.

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OP didn't specify that this was someone who never raised pf... If it's someone who limps 100% of the time, uh, that's just weird. Have to think about how to deal with that.

But if some guy is raising 10% and limping 85% and autocalling raises, which is more likely, then I think it still makes perfect sense to pop their 85% more widely because you will have the opportunity to pound the lower end of that range when it makes one pair. And possibly the opportunity to check down high cards UI and win, again depending on how passive opponent is.

[cwar]

I just dont think the situation your outlining is realistic or useful in practice, besides raising 10% doesnt necessarily mean top 10%, it usually doesnt with these types of players. You need to take into consideration postflop tendencies as well as preflop tendencies when making these type of decisions.

[creedofhubris]

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I just dont think the situation your outlining is realistic or useful in practice, besides raising 10% doesnt necessarily mean top 10%, it usually doesnt with these types of players. You need to take into consideration postflop tendencies as well as preflop tendencies when making these type of decisions.

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My goal is to take a large proportion of his stack when I outflop his Q2 with my QJ or my 333 or whatever. How am I gonna do that if I let him limp in? I'm not.

Letting him play small pots with his dominated/garbage hands, when he's willing to play big pots with his dominated/garbage hands, is an error.

This is assuming he's weak postflop as well. If he's aggressive postflop, then all this goes out the window, but limpy-donks almost never are.