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#1
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Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
I overbet mainly on the river. Often it is when I make a FH on the river and there is a flush or straight possibility on the board.
Sometimes I will play a made hand like a flush draw. If the draw misses, I then make an overbet on the river. Which reeks of missed draw, trying to steal pot. |
#2
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Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
berge,
the natural bluff overbet would be the third barrel on the river. we'll often see "call down to reasonable bet sizes" advice here, and it likely mirrors a lot of common nl thinking with moderate made hands. if we call pf, donk the flop, and donk the turn, then on certain boards and vs certain villains a big river overbet will be far too much for guy to showdown less than top two. |
#3
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Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
I also tend to overbet the flop when playing vs short stacks.
Initially its for value, but once i get a read on how capable they are of folding it can be in bluff spots as well. |
#4
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Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
I like this post berge.
So here is a hand I played last night. I guess it wasn't quite an overbet b/c he didn't have me covered but I would have done exactly the same thing and it illustrates the same ideas. I turned my hand into a bluff here b/c I was almost certain that he had either AJ or AQ and I didn't want to passively take the showdown. This is a spot I have been thinking a lot about lately and I was pretty happy with my play, so I'm glad you brought this up. Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 PL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter BB: $29.50 UTG: $50 UTG+1: $43.70 MP1: $213.25 MP2: $77.40 CO: $60.85 Hero (BTN): $73 SB: $36.05 Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN) UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.25</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls $2.75, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2.75 Flop: ($11) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players) UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks Turn: ($11) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players) UTG checks, MP2 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $6.50</font>, UTG calls $6.50, MP2 folds River: ($24) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">UTG bets $9</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $49.85</font>, UTG folds Results: $42 Pot ($2 Rake) Hero mucked A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and WON $40 (+$21.25 NET) |
#5
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Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
[ QUOTE ]
I turned my hand into a bluff here b/c I was almost certain that he had either AJ or AQ and I didn't want to passively take the showdown. This is a spot I have been thinking a lot about lately and I was pretty happy with my play, so I'm glad you brought this up. Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 PL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter BB: $29.50 UTG: $50 UTG+1: $43.70 MP1: $213.25 MP2: $77.40 CO: $60.85 Hero (BTN): $73 SB: $36.05 Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN) UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.25</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls $2.75, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2.75 Flop: ($11) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players) UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks Turn: ($11) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players) UTG checks, MP2 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $6.50</font>, UTG calls $6.50, MP2 folds River: ($24) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">UTG bets $9</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $49.85</font>, UTG folds Results: $42 Pot ($2 Rake) Hero mucked A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and WON $40 (+$21.25 NET) [/ QUOTE ] IMO this is a terrible play as a bluff. You have the best hand here like 80% of the time. Why would you think he has AJ/AQ? Limp-call, check flop, check-call half pot on turn? He's either blocking with a King, or has the flush which he doesn't fold. I think it's extremely unlikely you bluffed him off a better hand than yours. Oh also, your line is completely unbelievable. You rarely check this flop with twopair+ or a flush draw. This is a better value bet than it is bluff. |
#6
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Re: Overbetting: When to use it?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I turned my hand into a bluff here b/c I was almost certain that he had either AJ or AQ and I didn't want to passively take the showdown. This is a spot I have been thinking a lot about lately and I was pretty happy with my play, so I'm glad you brought this up. Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 PL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter BB: $29.50 UTG: $50 UTG+1: $43.70 MP1: $213.25 MP2: $77.40 CO: $60.85 Hero (BTN): $73 SB: $36.05 Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN) UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.25</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls $2.75, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2.75 Flop: ($11) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players) UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks Turn: ($11) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players) UTG checks, MP2 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $6.50</font>, UTG calls $6.50, MP2 folds River: ($24) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">UTG bets $9</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $49.85</font>, UTG folds Results: $42 Pot ($2 Rake) Hero mucked A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and WON $40 (+$21.25 NET) [/ QUOTE ] IMO this is a terrible play as a bluff. You have the best hand here like 80% of the time. Why would you think he has AJ/AQ? Limp-call, check flop, check-call half pot on turn? He's either blocking with a King, or has the flush which he doesn't fold. I think it's extremely unlikely you bluffed him off a better hand than yours. Oh also, your line is completely unbelievable. You rarely check this flop with twopair+ or a flush draw. This is a better value bet than it is bluff. [/ QUOTE ] You make valid points but I don't think they change the effect of the hand very much. Maybe I misspoke when I said I'm "turning my hand into a bluff." I agree he has a KQ or some K here relatively often. I don't make less money than if I called though, so the raise isn't worse than calling. Against this particular villain though I was confident AJ made up a very large portion of his range, and I also knew he wasn't calling a huge raise on the river. As for "[either having King or flush]" I guess we just disagree but I think table dynamics/image made AJ and AQ to a lesser degree quite likely and flush quite unlikely. I have been looking at hands like this lately b/c I will usually call b/c I feel the flush calls and I am ahead often. However, I have decided with a strong read a shove to fold out AQ/AJ is greater EV. Obviously reads are of paramount importance in a spot like this. |
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