Hand 2: NYC Live 200/400 vs TheTakeover

[EmpireMaker2]

I think this is a very very easy fold on the river

[Razor22]

Fold the river. The hand that makes the most sense is k10s or a10s. With aggressive players and deep stacks behind him, checking 2x to control pot would make sense. I do believe your mistake was not re-raising turn. qj or 66 would not check 2x in this spot. Looks like he tried to take the pot away on turn and made hand on the river.

[Jazzy3113]

Im a little confused by ur preflop action, in the description you mention 25-50-100-200-400. The blinds were 25-50 and there were three straddles? Jesus.

As described I think you had to call the turn. Shoving I think would also be acceptable. His river bet is rather large and I think basically the river card did not change anything. So, if you were beating him on the turn you are still good, and if he filled up on the turn you are beat.

However, I think your hand is good in the situation you described and I think a call would be correct. I think he would bet less if he was flushing. And his river bet is either a boat or bluff. Since I think he would have made it more with queens preflop and not checked that flop, I think he is using his image to push you off the hand.

ps. you said you only had 27k left so I think any hand he bets on the river would be for your remaining stack(fh, flush, air.) No way he is betting river with AA or KK

[rock1]

I was surprised no one commented on my lead of 1/2 pot on the turn looking fishy...I figured Nick and Artie knew i could do this with air, so I actually threw it out relatively quickly as i figured it would engage Artie in the hand (given his state of mind at this point)...i was prepared to play a big hand against artie with my hand (assuming nick was going to fold)...

when Nick checkraised the turn, my initial thought was to instamuck...i thought his line screamed of strength...but then i got to thinking that Nick knew i liked to bluff, and that he also knew Artie would make a move on me light...and that this was a decent spot for him to make a move (lots of potential dead money in pot)...i really did think he either had a monster or relative air here (thought flush draw, AA/KK type hands were very low probabilty)...i called with the plan of seeing what happened on river...

on the river Nick bets all in...i generally dont call turns like this unless i also plan on calling nonscary rivers...but i just felt that Nick was really strong...this was quite possibly the best game we had played in all year, and i didnt think Nick would make this move on me without a hand...so i folded and nick placed his cards in the muck...

i thought the range of responses were pretty interesting...i figured everyone was going to say the turn was an easy fold...

[AAismyfriend]

In theory the river SHOULD be a call once you call the turn, but I think Nick knows that bluffing this river given your cold call on the turn is pretty suicidal, so it seems he should be bluffing here very rarely.

[Razor22]

Rock - Im sure you know your players well but I still find it hard to believe that Nick would give a free card on the flop with such a scary board. For both players to call pf raise and with a flush/straight board, it's wrong to slowplay any hand. Then to check 2x, makes it even more unlikely. You would want to get value from you big hands or bet to pick up pot. That's why I refer back to him having a flush draw and made his hand on the river. With your bet on the turn and fishy minibet raise by Artie on tilt, that would be good spot to raise with draw. I do find it unlikely after you called that he would bluff river, so therefore a draw makes alot of sense.

[HustlerLA]

[ QUOTE ]
Do people think that Nick ever plays AA or KK this way given that he has 2 very aggressive players behind him?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can add KJs to the list, does he ever play that this way? I doubt it, but seems more plausible than AA or KK. If he played QQ this way, its pretty horrible imo, and given his competency unlikley. A broadway combo draw is probably most likely imo, which did get there. This leads me to beleive you were ahead and a turn shove would have been best. As played a fold on river.

[Jazzy3113]

did u an nick discuss the hand afterwards?

[Bill King]

[ QUOTE ]
Do people think that Nick ever plays AA or KK this way given that he has 2 very aggressive players behind him?

[/ QUOTE ]

not unless he views this river bet as a bluff obviously.

i think i call river.. folding is probably a mistake with this much money in the pot.

[Irish Mafia]

It seems like the only hand you lose to is QQ - but I also have no idea what Nick's raising range is OOP in the sb. Given his line, a flush seems highly unlikely.