David Singer

[Humble Pie]

Singer was eliminated from the ME on a hand in which his opponent recieved a call and touched his cell phone during the hand. Singer appealed to the tournament supervisor and director to kill his opponents hand. Both ruled against him. Singer now wants a refund of his entry fee because he feels that he has been violated.

WSOP cell phone rule states: "A player who wants to use a cellular phone must step away from the table. Any player on the cell phone or texting a messaging when the dealer delivers the first card from the deck will have a dead hand. No cell phones can be placed on a poker table."

Is Singer justified or angle-shooting?

[scottyno]

from pokernews:

video: http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/...p;x=24&y=15

live update:
"David Singer Eliminated, Not Without Controversy

On a flop of {K-Spades}{7-Spades}{4-Diamonds} and facing a bet of 3,000 from a late-position player David Singer moved all from the button for 9,450.

Here's where the hand gets interesting. As David's opponent was contemplating his decision his cell phone rang -- he removed it from his pocket, glanced at it and turned it off. Singer said nothing at first but made a motion to the dealer.

Then his opponent said "I'll just pay you off, I'll call."

At this point Singer said, "His hand should be dead," and requested a ruling from the floorperson. When the floorperson heard the situation she called for the Tournament Director to make a ruling.

After a re-enactment of exactly how the player touched his phone, the Tournament Director ruled that his hand was not dead and he would be allowed to play.

Singer then requested a higher ruling, saying, "I have a drawing hand here and I obviously don't want him to be allowed to call."

This request was denied and the players' hands were tabled, with Singer showing{4-Spades}{5-Spades} for bottom pair and a flush draw and his opponent holding {K-Diamonds}{J-Diamonds} for top pair.

The turn {10-Hearts} and river {8-Diamonds} did not help Singer and he has been eliminated.

As he left the table he was asking for a refund, saying, "Ever since I have been here, I have been told that if you touch your phone during a hand then your hand is dead."

At this point we don't know if that request will be considered but we do know that David Singer will not be playing Day Two of the Main Event, and he's not happy about it.

David Singer is still meandering around the Amazon Room, trying to resolve the cellphone controversy surrounding his elimination from the tournament.

Here's the latest:

Jack Effel wants to investigate whether or not the player in question was using his phone for text messaging purposes; Singer believes that fact is irrelevant.

Here is the official cellphone policy, as stated in the 2007 WSOP rulebook:

"82. Cell Phone Rule: A player who wants to use a cellular phone must step away from the table. Any player on the cell phone or texting a messaging when the dealer delivers the first card from the deck will have a dead hand. No cell phones can be placed on a poker table."

Singer, who is a lawyer by profession, has requested a refund from tournament staff and is seeking the opportunity to play in one of the remaining Day Ones. We're also told that he intends to speak with the gaming commission about the situation.

PokerNews has conducted a video interview with Singer regarding the controversy and it will be available for viewing momentarily. Stay tuned."

[shaniac]

Without being there, none of us will really know what happened and if or how the rule was violated. Certainly speaks to the absurdity of having rules that are almost impossible to evenly enforce. I'd like to hear more of Singer's version of events and also the floor's justification for its ruling.

I assume that Singer wasn't angle-shooting and (I hope) that he called for the judgement as soon as he saw the violation, not after he lost the hand.

[shaniac]

[ QUOTE ]
from pokernews:

video: http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/...p;x=24&y=15

live update:
"David Singer Eliminated, Not Without Controversy

On a flop of {K-Spades}{7-Spades}{4-Diamonds} and facing a bet of 3,000 from a late-position player David Singer moved all from the button for 9,450.

Here's where the hand gets interesting. As David's opponent was contemplating his decision his cell phone rang -- he removed it from his pocket, glanced at it and turned it off. Singer said nothing at first but made a motion to the dealer.

Then his opponent said "I'll just pay you off, I'll call."

At this point Singer said, "His hand should be dead," and requested a ruling from the floorperson. When the floorperson heard the situation she called for the Tournament Director to make a ruling.

After a re-enactment of exactly how the player touched his phone, the Tournament Director ruled that his hand was not dead and he would be allowed to play.

Singer then requested a higher ruling, saying, "I have a drawing hand here and I obviously don't want him to be allowed to call."

This request was denied and the players' hands were tabled, with Singer showing{4-Spades}{5-Spades} for bottom pair and a flush draw and his opponent holding {K-Diamonds}{J-Diamonds} for top pair.

The turn {10-Hearts} and river {8-Diamonds} did not help Singer and he has been eliminated.

As he left the table he was asking for a refund, saying, "Ever since I have been here, I have been told that if you touch your phone during a hand then your hand is dead."

At this point we don't know if that request will be considered but we do know that David Singer will not be playing Day Two of the Main Event, and he's not happy about it.

David Singer is still meandering around the Amazon Room, trying to resolve the cellphone controversy surrounding his elimination from the tournament.

Here's the latest:

Jack Effel wants to investigate whether or not the player in question was using his phone for text messaging purposes; Singer believes that fact is irrelevant.

Here is the official cellphone policy, as stated in the 2007 WSOP rulebook:

"82. Cell Phone Rule: A player who wants to use a cellular phone must step away from the table. Any player on the cell phone or texting a messaging when the dealer delivers the first card from the deck will have a dead hand. No cell phones can be placed on a poker table."

Singer, who is a lawyer by profession, has requested a refund from tournament staff and is seeking the opportunity to play in one of the remaining Day Ones. We're also told that he intends to speak with the gaming commission about the situation.

PokerNews has conducted a video interview with Singer regarding the controversy and it will be available for viewing momentarily. Stay tuned."

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.

1) If they refund him his buyin, that's one thing, but I'd be totally aghast if they let him back in the tournament. The floor ruling, no matter how good or bad, should be final, and players should never be allowed to find legal loopholes after-the-fact in order to get a second seat in the same tournament. He already got an appeal, there is no way he should ever be allowed to get back in the tournament.

2) What Singer's opponent did is technically penalize-able, but really falls into a grey area that isn't explicitly defined in the rule (which is why it's a bad rule).

3) In a more perfect world, there is no question that this guy's hand should NOT be declared dead, especially if he was just silencing the ringer. However, given the way the rule was established and enforced throughout the Series, it's not at all unreasonable for Singer to think the hand should be dead. Still, the ruling was laid down, and Singer should have no recourse--if Harrah's decides to refund his money, they should absolutely not take it out of the prize pool.

[robracing]

Singer explains his position in very level-headed fashion here :

http://www.pokernews.com/live-reporting/...mp;x=23&y=5

[shaniac]

also,

[ QUOTE ]
Singer then requested a higher ruling, saying, "I have a drawing hand here and I obviously don't want him to be allowed to call."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is sort of loathsome--either stand up for the principle, or ignore the minor violation, don't make your appeal to the floor conditional on the strength of your hand wtf!?

[shaniac]

Meh. The way he described the action, the dude's hand should definitely be dead. But I stand by the rest of what I said.

[shaniac]

Yeah, my head is spinning. The dealer should have declared the hand dead right away, but, again, this is why you need to have rules that are easy to enforce and dealers and floorpeople who are trained to enforce them correctly and thoroughly.

We've all been screwed by bad floor rulings before, though.

[timex]

1) He should definitely not be allowed into the tournament, but I do feel he should get a refund
2) David Singer is one of the most baller(not in the throwing around money sense, but in the not caring about money sense) person I have met, and I don't think he is trying to angle-shoot for 10k.

[shaniac]

If they do give him a refund, it shouldn't come out of the prizepool, and it sets an awful precedent, as people will be constantly trying to get their buyins refunded after bad floor calls.