Have a set. Spew?

[manbearpig]

Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

MP ($11.65)
CO ($17.35)
Button ($42.35)
SB ($77.40)
Hero ($24.65)
UTG ($4.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $0.85</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.60.

Flop: ($1.80) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $3.95</font>, Hero calls $2.15.

Turn: ($9.70) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $19.85 (All-In)</font>, Button calls $13.85.

River: ($49.40) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>
.

Final Pot: $49.40

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has 7d 7h (three of a kind, sevens).
Button has 9d Jd (straight, jack high).
Outcome: Button wins $49.40. </font>

Comments on all streets appreciated. Shove the flop? Lead the turn? Throw up?

[wingchunflush]

I raise here PF because the button has a wide range. As played I am not giving this guy credit for J9 so I shove. The check raise on the turn is very very bad.

[creamfillin]

You want to 3-bet this flop. Too many cards that kill your action or possibly make him a straight. As played the turn is good. Sorry you got coolered.

[matrix]

standard.

Hello "Stack-a-donk".

I'd re-raise the flop (bet/3b line) cos if I can get all the monies in then I have better equity than I do on the turn - but this is fine as played.

Raising preflop would be *horrible* small pairs like the implied odds - raising preflop decimates the implied odds so then we gots to win a lot more pots in other ways to make up for that.

[NeverScurred]

I don't think 3-betting preflop is "*horrible*" here. Villain is a button raiser so he could easily be stealing and and will fold a lot of his range, and if he calls he can still fold to flop c-bets a lot. I mean, against an unknown I definitely flatcall the majority of the time, but against the right villains a 3-bet is fine.

[matrix]

We have a made hand with SD value. Why do we want to turn that hand into a bluff preflop?

I'd consider 3betting for value in position with a small pair - but rarely at 25NL and almost never OOP.

1:8 times we flop a set which is a VERY powerful NL hand we deny ourselves the chance to flop the set by 3betting with it preflop cos more often than not villain folds whatever garbage he opened on the button.

I think it's better to call preflop and bluff the flop or float the flop and bluff the turn if we are going to bluff, that way we see a flop and have a little more informaton about hte equity of our hand.

If we 3bet preflop with a small pair and villain has a hand like QQ+ odds on he re-raises us and now we gotta fold and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that instead of folding preflop we would have stacked him if we'd flopped a set and got it all-in then vs his OP.

If you wanna 3bet a wide ranged LP opener I think do it with hands like 67s 78s 68s J9s JTs - stuff that usually flops badly and turns into air rather than hands that have a little SD value before any more cards have even been dealt.

[NeverScurred]

[ QUOTE ]
We have a made hand with SD value. Why do we want to turn that hand into a bluff preflop?


[/ QUOTE ]
Because showdown is far, far away and you'll have to navigate 3 streets OOP to get there, possibly calling multiple bets with second and third pair.

I'm confused, though. Are you calling preflop because you want to get to showdown with your "made hand", or are you calling for set value, which in essence means you're playing a draw? As I said, I think the flatcall preflop is standard (I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate here) but when I do it, I don't have aspirations of showing down my 77 unimproved and dragging the pot. I'm mostly just setmining, so I don't see a difference between 77 and an SC - either way, it usually "flops badly and turns into air". Against more aggro buttons, the light 3-bet with 77 can be very profitable, and these are the same kinds of players against which it will be very difficult to show down your hand unimproved if you flat, because they are likely to fire c-bets often.


But yeah, flatting is standard, but it isn't the only option.