Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[NobleNobleNoble]

Apologies, again 4 posting dumb theory.

flight2q could you please explain these quotes of yours:

07/03/07: FTP Down?

"I'm at 375.00 BB/100 today. "

07/23/07: 9 Handed 150/300 Absolute

"And yet I knew his cards"

http://www.deucescracked.com/Poker-F...t-a-video-here

"I'd like to see an invasion of a microstakes NL table by a bunch of DC members with hole cards collected from everyone. Like was done for limit ago ago."

Then on 5th Aug there was a post by a new time poster claiming his UB account had been frozen 4 suspected chip dumping though he was innocent...
(The story seemed a bit far fetched esp. considering how bad their security has been at picking up the current cheaters.)
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=1&vc=1

Stetda replied...

unless they found that you were playing from the same IP address, I don't know why they would come up with this. I don't play UB, but I find it hard to believe that if you followed up with their customer service that you couldn't get this resolved. No matter how bad they are... something just doesn't sound right here.

The very next post was you ...
"If they were playing from the same IP, why would they need to chip dump on some poker site to move money between them?"

(I dont know if that means anything though - my bad)

Apologies is if this is out of context, but it might explain your rationale to cheating...?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

I agree with the people who would not be surprised if Justin Bonomo limited his unethical activities. It really shows misunderstanding of people to think that they must have taken further advantage. Of course someone who cheats to the hilt might also say that their actions were limited, so you can't be sure. But people do draw boundaries - somewhere. There are people who will sell pot, but won't sell meth, or will only resell for the same price they paid. There are parents who will take their children trick or treating (violating solicitation ordinances) even though not all the children are in the age range approved for this activity by the community. But if you take that same parent, and have them walk by a candy store, with a bag of candy sitting in the doorway, and no one around, and yet they won't take the candy - because it would be wrong!

[iron81]

Poker players have been playing in crooked games since poker was invented. Sure, if I were a high stakes player I would have to increase my vigilence while playing online, but the risk of crooked games is still higher in casinos and home games than online. Even in my small stakes games, I've wondered whether the hanger in the dealers hand was intentional or whether the guys showing each other their cards were more than friends.

Proving that cheating sometimes occurs online will only mean it is on par with B&M. Being on the lookout for crooked games is part of being a poker player.

[PokerStorm]

Just something I thought of there. Like with that fairly recent thread asking if they thought somebody could turn $10 into $1000000 if they could see hole cards....what if the cheats were seeing just far they could take it with the ability to see hole cards. Maybe they thought a few sessions of destroying the tables wouldn't be detected and they could just see what's possible when the ability is used to the max. I can see someone letting their ego get the better of them and getting off big time on absolutely destroying the big names on the highest stakes, I know I would [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

This is just another possiblity of what could've been happening.

[e_phemeral]

[ QUOTE ]
[T]he risk of crooked games is still higher in casinos and home games than online.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can this be true? I agree that maybe the risk of running into collusion is the same in a B&M, but there is absolutely no risk in a B&M that you will be playing with someone who is wearing special X-ray vision donk-goggles that allow him to see through the back of the cards and know the hole cards of everyone else at his table. That is a completely different level of a "crooked game." You cannot win against someone who has that much of an edge on you, whereas you can still win at a table that might have 2 or even 3 people colluding. I have been at ring game tables and satellites at B&Ms where it was fairly obvious that certain people were colluding. That sort of thing is fairly easy to spot if you are observant and know the game. Once you know it is happening, you play accordingly or change tables.

But if these allegations are true and certain people have the ability to hack into these websites and see other players' hole cards in real time, then in my opinion that is "lights out" for online poker. In the hands of a skilled and savvy internet poker player, who would know that he could not use his edge to win 100% of the time, and would have to lose every now and then and make -EV plays to cover up, that edge would be insurmountable and virtually undetectable by other players. That is much different than encountering collusion in a B&M. You would never know you were being cheated and would just think that the other person is better than you. Once the integrity of the game comes into serious question, you will see people stop playing.

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

[ QUOTE ]
but there is absolutely no risk in a B&M that you will be playing with someone who is wearing special X-ray vision donk-goggles that allow him to see through the back of the cards and know the hole cards of everyone else at his table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you hear that? That was thousands of people who know how to mark a deck of cards suddenly getting the shivers

[FellKnight]

[ QUOTE ]
You would never know you were being cheated and would just think that the other person is luckier than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

Fell

[McSeafield]

[ QUOTE ]
Absolute is not based in Canada. The Kahwanake Gaming Commission is. Absolute is based in Costa Rica (and all their employees are there as well).

[/ QUOTE ]

You can file a complaint in any case with the Kahwanake Gaming Commission.

If you want to sue Absolute than the following question seems to be important. What is the company status of Absolute Poker? I see the answer as follows:

1) If Absolute Poker is only a subsidiary of Tokwiro Enterprises ENRG, then Absolute is located in Kahnawake too.

2) If Absolute Poker is a incorporated company (it doesn´t look like) and with place of management in Costa Rica, than its place of business is Costa Rica for sure.

Perhaps somebody knows the company status of Absolute. If nobody knows the campany status of Absolute, you can threat Absolute like a subsidiary from my point of view. But please ask your lawyer for better advice. I have no idea whether my consideration is valid for Canada too.

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

[ QUOTE ]
Once the integrity of the game comes into serious question, you will see people stop playing.

[/ QUOTE ] almost every high-limit player on AP is positive this is cheating. Every day these threads get 5 more people who say its not. People arent going to stop playing

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but there is absolutely no risk in a B&M that you will be playing with someone who is wearing special X-ray vision donk-goggles that allow him to see through the back of the cards and know the hole cards of everyone else at his table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you hear that? That was thousands of people who know how to mark a deck of cards suddenly getting the shivers

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference between the oldschool Texas games, with robberies, marked cards and so on, and AP is that there are lots of games to go around. People traveling the circuit back then didn't have a choice of where to play. Moreover, they could be counted on to catch the blatant cheaters - so the grift had to be kept to a reasonable margin. You don't have that assurance at AP now.

Also, MTT poker is a whole separate story, one which rewards cheating and punishes the EV of everyone else far more than old school 60's limit (remember, they didn't even play NL) ever could.

[erbbysam]

<font color="red">The following are my security 101 analysis on the actual hack named "POTRIPPER", take what you want from it because I'm no expert </font>
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Btw, POTRIPPER is the name of a hacking tool, or more specifically an exploiting tool as mentioned on this site http://www.imafia.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2118

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I downloaded it, but refuse to run it for what I hope are obvious security reasons. From the "Readme-potrip.txt" file:
[ QUOTE ]

-=Pot Ripper=-


This is a tool to extract the combos out of a raw pass file that you have not yet 'decrypted'
with JTR. That's it.


1. Choose the location of your john.pot.
2. Choose the location of you pass file.
3. Choose and output file.
4. Choose number of passes through the .pot file to make

If you are not concerned about memory usage, just leave this value at 1. This is
obviously the fastest method, but it is very resource intensive. If you are having
trouble running like this, try increasing this value. For instance, if you set it
to 3, then the program will load 1/3 of the files at a time. Hopefully, this will reduce
the drain on memory.

4. Go.


Again, setting up a shortcut to this program in your SendTo folder is the preferred method
(at least by me).


STYX


[/ QUOTE ]
My analysis:
JTR is refering to "John the Ripper" (link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_the_ripper ) which is a basic password ("hash") cracking tool. The "raw pass file" that is referred to is the encrypted password file. It is possible that they are using a this as a method to break some level of weak encryption on AP's part and using "Pot Ripper" to assist them but as to what, is beyond me.
<font color="red"> /interesting implications </font>
WARNING: PERSONAL COMMENT:With the lack of overhead by a "real" monitoring gaming commission, or even a competent security team, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a few points at AP which are severely weak on the encryption side, which is scary with the amount of money that flows over their network daily.