Pool, poker and Shannon Elizabeth (ultra super long trip report)

[dinopoker]

I had heard a lot about the new 85-table room at the Borgata that just opened, but this weekend would be my first opportunity to check it out and I couldn’t wait. However, rather than just rush down there on Friday after work, I actually decided to go out and play some pool, planning to just play for a few hours, then get some sleep and head to Borgata early on Saturday. Since most of you enjoy degenerate behavior of all types, I’ll share with you some pool content as well as poker content. If you don’t like that, skip ahead.

--Pool Hall
I had prearranged to meet with a guy known to play a little bit, and bet a little bit, at a smallish pool room not far from where I live. It actually turned out to be a little ways farther than that, and I ended up arriving late. The guy I was supposed to meet was not there, but my arrival was expected as several railbirds and sweaters were. I was there for about five minutes when one of them, a young fat kid who claimed he wasn’t that good a player said that, if I wanted, he would play me some cheap sets, but that he needed the 7 ball, basically something to do until the other guy shows up. If I play well, I’ll probably beat most people giving up this game but I am out of stroke due to all the poker I play nowadays, so I negotiated to the 8. He probably still thought he was stealing and the game was on, race to 9 for $200.

He then proceeded to play about perfect in the first set, while I struggled a little with the unfamiliar table, and he took me down 9-7. Not that good a player indeed! Regardless, I go on tilt fast, and insta-flipped for the second set, not caring if I won or lost, but refusing to accept that I can be defeated by a punk like this (he wasn’t really a punk, but I think this about anyone who beats me for about 20 minutes afterwards). This time, however, he missed a few balls and I coasted to a 9-5 win.

Immediately I was approached by the actual guy I was supposed to meet, whom I’ll call Randy, and he started feeding me the usual lines of BS about how good I must play to give the previous opponent the 8, and how bad he plays and so on, blah, blah, blah. For the record you all should know that there are MANY more angle shooters and nits in the pool world than there are in the poker world. But I’ve heard all of this a million times and I won’t go for any of the crazy games they’re trying to hustle me into. I figure I’m going to reverse trap them because, while they know I’m a good player, what they don’t know is that I’m a very, very good player, maybe a half a ball below tour level.

Eventually he makes the offer of me playing another guy, call him Bruce, a one-pocket match and giving up 10-8. Whoa, they are playing with fire here, 10-8 is actually not much weight for a good player to give up, and having watched Bruce hit about 6 shots I can tell I like this game, because even though I’ll need to make 10 balls, he’ll still need to make 8! (A scarier game that would be more +EV for them would be, 8-6 or something, where Bruce would be more likely to win the game in one turn.) That’s no big deal unless he’s a one-pocket hero, and certainly worth a little gamble to find out.

Nonetheless, I slowplay a little, countering with 10-8/9-8 (10-8 on my break and 9-8 on his), which they agree to provided we back that up with a 9-ball race where I give him the 7. Though I’m not thrilled with the lack of gamble they’re showing, I still think I have them in a trap. Thus I agree to this and we start off the race to 4 at one-pocket with me immediately losing the first two games, 8 to -4 in the first game and 8 to -1 in the second (giving up 10-8/9-8 means I must start both games off in the negatives). Much of this is due to my one-pocket style, where I am looking to throw knockout punches while most people are willing to grind and jab for a ball at a time. I’m usually after the ‘ten and out’ shot. If I’m not playing well, I can look like a total goof this way, which I do.

However, I change gears to an ‘upside down’ style game, catch a roll to get started and grind back to win the set 4-3 (playing the hill-hill game on your break is like holding AK on the button). The last shot was a little special. I need one ball, and Bruce needs 2, but both balls are down in the scoring area, and while I have a shot it is a long difficult ‘spot shot’. To make matters worse I am very close to the top cushion and must elevate the cue slightly over the rubber facing of the corner pocket to stroke the shot. Caution and conventional one-pocket wisdom says you should not shoot at this, but I always shoot at a shot I can win with but that I don’t have to lose with. Besides, I determine that the cue ball is going to run into the secondary ball after it hits the ball on the spot, and this should (emphasis on should) send it about halfway up the table for a modicum of safety.

At any rate, I slam the ball into the pocket, and the cue ball does indeed hit the other ball, actually knocking it into his pocket. This is irrelevant at one-pocket, however, as it only means I win 10-7 rather than 10-6. Bruce is sick. The poker equivalent would be hitting an open-ended straight flush draw for a flush to crack AA. I’m favored to make the shot, but not that much.

Meanwhile, the set has taken so long that we are forced due to the upcoming closing time of the pool room to have to play a very short race. This is no big deal to me as I’m winner and I’m just here for fun, but Bruce in particular is trying hard to grind out this money (even while getting staked by Randy) and he doesn’t like that. Despite that we play and Bruce actually wins the shortened set 7-5 so we end up even. The key moment came when the score was 3-1 for him when he got out of line on the 7 ball. We played about four safeties each before he made a one-in-a-million shot to win. That put him 4-1 rather than 3-2, and even though I ran three racks from his break the next game he still hung on to win. Frustrating to show that kind of speed in a break-even session, but in the long run who cares when there’s all the poker you could ever play an hour and half away.

--Borgata
So I sleep late Saturday and spin down to the Borgata through the parkway traffic (tailgating is very –EV, by the way, to any of you who may not know this, but it seems like a statewide pastime in New Jersey). I arrive at the room at about 4:00 get seated by 4:30, and we’re off to the races in the game of all games, 1/2NL! The game at which I am seated is brand new, and so I coast for a little bit without getting involved in too many pots. Like so many of the games at this level, the table is a donkfest.

I’m up about $50 when I encounter an interesting hand, picking up QQ on the button. A middle position player raises in front of me to $10 and I repop to about $30. A UTG player calls as does the MP and we take the flop of 10h 8c 2h three handed.

Immediately, the UTG goes all in for his short stack of about $60. This is insta-called by MP and I go into the tank. I began the thinking session certain that I am beat, but end up talking myself out of the fold. I guess my logic is that the lack of a re-raise precluded KK or AA so I go ahead stick all the chips in, only to be called by MP who had, of course, flopped a set of 10’s. I don’t improve and I kick myself for about an hour. This was by far my weakest play in weeks; I should have known that at least one of them had me beat. What was the guy in MP going to raise with pre-flop, AT?

Regardless, I rebuy and get the money back on a raised pot where I had 6s4s in the BB and flop a flush on a board of 10s 2s 3s. I bet out at the flop, only for the player to my left to raise. I have played with him before and I know that he’s a total and complete fishcake, and I have a minor tell on him that when he has a very strong hand he leans back in his chair. Since this tell wasn’t on I decide I’m good and go over the top for his whole stack. He calls and tables (you guessed it) 23o and my flush stands up. A couple of players comment on the guts required for this but I thought the read backed up my play, as did having the emergency backup out with the 5s. The player in question goes on tilt after that and blows off about $700 that the table is only too happy to collect. This puts a lot of chips in play for us.

I, however, have trouble making headway. In another hand I have AA on the button and smooth call a $12 raise from a MP. The flop comes Qd 4c 7d and my opponent bets out about $15. I raise to $40 and he re-raises me to $100. I thought about this for a bit and decide that based on earlier observations that he must have AQ and come over the top with a push. I have at this point about $650 and have him covered. He calls and turns over…AdJd, which is nice to see, until he makes the flush on the river. Blech!

I make a slight recovery after that, but can’t quite get back to even. I come close several times, but I am rivered on no fewer than three more occasions. To add to that I go thorough a long period, at least 3 hours, where I am getting total crap hands. The night is now drawing down as the hour approaches 3:00am and I move to a new table, dominated by a young guy who looks a bit like John D’Agistino with a stack of about $800 or so. An interesting hand comes up where I am in the BB with 9d8d and call a raise, along with two others to see a flop of Qd, Jc, 3d. I check and call a modest continuation bet, as does the button, and the turn card is the Kd, to give me a weak flush with a gutshot straight flush draw.

The trick is how to play it. Should I bet out a good sum, hoping to take it down, or perhaps get a single high diamond to call me, or should I slow play, figuring that the Kd may have helped someone else (and may even have made a bigger flush for someone) and maybe go for a checkraise? I have very little information about my opponents, though the original bettor is a short stack and not dangerous, but the button seems fairly competent.

Ultimately I go for check to see what the others do, which could be a mistake. The OR bets out again (AK?) and the button ponders for a second before raising to about $85. He seems as he does this to be more concerned with the OR than with me, but it puts me in a quandary. I run through some hands, Adxd, AT, T9 (?), etc. A very good possibility is AdTx, which would be a good tricky play on his part. I also wonder what he thinks OR has to make a bet like this. Would he make such a play without a big hand? Is he a good enough player to even worry about OR? I’m obviously either going all in or folding and both seem like decent plays, but the all in is for a lot of money.

Ultimately I decide that it’s not worth the risk and throw the hand away. It was a marginal situation that maybe was the result of my earlier donkey play with the QQ. It turns out as a lost opportunity too as the button turns over the AdTc when OR calls for all his chips on the river, which of course was a non-diamond. OR never tabled his hand but he probably had KQ or KK or something.

The hand doesn’t phase me much because I’m pretty sure that folding was not a horrible play (others will no doubt disagree), and I kind of agree with Steve Danneman’s comment from the WSOP that ‘not calling a raise is only a small mistake’. A worse one would have been to jam all in and watch him turn over the nut flush (and yes, I know the situation is similar to the previous 64 hand, but that was a much different player – as we all know, the situation in poker is everything).

At any rate, the game continues. We are all moved to another game which looks and sounds good because of the loudness and laughter coming from it and it is. It includes a maniac whom I’ll call Chance, who loves to massively overbet very small pots, putting like $40 into $6 and $8 pots with regularity. It aggravates everyone else but I love it. When I call one of those bets, though, it’s going to be with a big hand.

That opportunity ultimately never arises, but a very interesting hand comes up with Chance and the button player from the previous hand, whom I’ll call John. Chance is UTG and raises before the flop to $7 or $10, I call, as does John on the button (can’t remember my hand, maybe 44 or something). The flop comes 8s, 9s, 10c and Chance, true to form, bets out about $60. I fold and John thinks for a long time, before finally calling. I figure him for a flush draw and when a spade hits the turn I know we’re going to see fireworks. Chance (who, I should point out, is very drunk and boisterous), fires out another overbet, this time of maybe $200 and John instantly goes all-in for like $700, which Chance can cover. Chance now looks like someone has just stolen his car and he stands up, trying to think it out and, in my opinion, knowing that he was beat.

Eventually he shakes his head and says, “I think I’m going to have to fold these.” He then picks up his cards (still standing), takes one more look, and then says, “nah, I call!” The hands are tabled and we have AA with the ace of spades against a king-high flush. Naturally, Fate is in a humorous mood and a spade hits the river to send John to the felt. His cry of anguish is brutality itself and he pleads with the dealer, the floor and who knows, maybe Zeus himself that when Chance said ‘I think I’m going to have to FOLD’ that his hand should be ruled folded. Everyone patiently explains that just using “fold” in a sentence is not enough to have his hand ruled dead but he pleads his case for an eternity.

Meanwhile, another player more cold-blooded player than I points out that it was bad luck, but we need to get on with the game. This starts another tirade with threats of lawyers and police and what have you. Chance, being a total jerk and being drunk, comes within a hair’s breath of being ejected and blacklisted because he wants to get in John’s face about the whole thing and how lousy the call on the flop was, but John is totally on emotion tilt. Neither of them could let it go. John has just learned how cruel a mistress the Cadillac of poker can be. I will later learn that he was actually stuck and playing on case money.

The incident basically ruins our table and, seeing no games of interest in the front area, I move to the back corner of the room where several more 1/2 games in action. Much of the buzz back here is centered on the fact that Shannon Elizabeth is playing in the 2/5 game across the aisle, as is an actor from the sitcom That 70’s Show. I can’t share with you who it was, because I’ve never seen the show and his back was to me (it definitely wasn’t Ashton Kutcher, though). I wandered over for a look and I can tell you that Shannon definitely looks very good, she’s even prettier than she looks in her movies, but she is very, very skinny. I can also tell you that she had one guy in what I’ll loosely call her ‘entourage’ who looked very creepy. Kind of like Iggy Pop mixed with Gene Simmons after a week long crack binge. She was apparently going to play in the main event of the Borgata summer open, which, knowing Hollywood like I do, is probably at least partly a move on her part to get some free publicity from the New York media, much like her interest in poker in general (fun gossip: Shannon’s ex-husband is currently ‘involved’ with Annie Duke). I did not observe more than about 5 seconds so I also can’t tell you how she played.

Back to my poker action, which though self-centered is kinda the point here. After several broken games due to the late hour (approaching 6:00am), I sit at what for me would be the last table. It’s a good one, lots of good conversation, jokes, good chip stacks and plenty of bad playing. My cards improve and I start picking up some pots with raises and continuation bets when I get into a monster pot.

I have 99 on the button and make a $15 raise to chase out a large number of limpers. I am called by the BB and by an LP player. The flop comes down As, 10d, 9d, which is gin for me. Yet despite my early raise, the BB bets out and is raised by the LP limper! With the early limping and my raise, we have about $50 in the pot to begin with and now a bet out of $20 and a raise to $40. Both players have about $200 to my $500 and change so I figure they’re coming no matter what I do and put them both all in. Amazingly I’m called by both of them and when we table our hands I’m up against Ad4d and an off suit AT. Yikes! Try sweating that one out! For what feels like the first time that night I am not rivered in a big pot and I suddenly find myself in the black with a nice stack of $900 and change.

I do some quick planning here. My original plan was to get a room at some point during the night and then, rested, come back to play in the afternoon. It’s now about 7:00am, maybe I should do that now. But then again, maybe not, as the following monster hand comes up.

I have JsTd on the button, and call a raise from a cute girl, call her Christie. An early position player also calls and we take the flop of Ks, Qd, 3s together. EP, call him Steve, checks and Christie fires out a decent bet. I call with a good draw and position and so does Steve. The turn is an off suit 9 for gin. Steve checks again and Christie bets again, this time a decent bet, maybe $50 or so. I consider raising but decide to gamble that maybe Steve will come along too – maybe he’s on a flush draw or something and I can stack Christie on the river. She seems strong so I’m thinking she either has AA, KK or maybe KQ. I’m vulnerable to the draws, but not too much.

My plan goes out the window though, Steve raises Christie’s bet to about $250. What the hell is this? Christie agonizes and then calls and it’s clearly time for me to throw all the chips in and end this farce. Steve must have a set and Christie must have AK, AA or KQ.

Then it dawns on me – Steve has JT the same hand as me!

Whoa, hold the phone, this means that I have a total freeroll – Christie is getting stacked probably no matter what, and she has a good $400 or so, but, since I’m holding the jack of spades Steve can’t have it, and that means that he can’t be holding JsTs. If a spade hits the river, Steve is going to have a very bad day. I mutter that I’m priced in and call (as a sidenote, Steve had a nice $700 stack as well, so there was still room to maneuver).

And, Allah be praised, a harmless spade did indeed hit the river. Steve looks disgusted as he checks to me, Christie puts in her last $40 or so and I go all in for like $700. Steve’s head goes in his hands and, after what must have been torture while in the tank, he finally folds. The look on his face was brutal when I table my JT and he looks around for a noose as I rake in the pot that should have been half his. Christie is even more devastated as she shows her cracked KQ.

I play it cool and stay silent while they lament, not wanting to look like a jerk, but I feel pretty damn good about how that hand came down. I fold the next hand and calmly walk outside for a cigarette but I am unable to contain myself and let out a whoop as soon as I enter the casino area. I quickly relate the story of the hand to a nearby slot machine. The slot machine listens patiently but I don’t think it gets it. “See,” I tell it, “because I had the jack of spades, I knew he couldn’t have the jack and ten of spades, so it was a total freeroll for the bluff.” It finally agrees that I am God’s gift to poker, blinking quite happily, and reminds me that a jackpot on the 3’rd payout line pays triple. I go back to the game with all thoughts of sleeping gone for good.

It’s good timing too, because the game is getting juicy. I stack another guy when he calls off all his chips on a board with A, Q, 3 while I’m holding AQ and he has (what else?) KT, then cream another girl who calls for all her chips with Ax while I have AK. I do drop a pot or two, including a hand where I made top two pair on a board of 9 7 5 8 J and my opponent was calling with AT of hearts and a flush draw, only to make a straight on the river. I stupidly value bet the river and he raised me, but by then there was enough money in the pot that I had to make a crying call.

Also at my table is a guy who is so far past annoying he makes Chance from the earlier story look like a saint. After every big hand he talks about how wonderful it would have been to have been holding the cooler, like for example on my 99 hand he can’t stop talking about how fun holding TT would have been. He will rehash every hand, and point out the error of everyone’s ways. He also won’t quit messing with stuff. He constantly tries to help the dealer move cards, chips and pots and everyone is going crazy at him because, a) he’s an idiot and b) he won’t shut up. Finally I make him a $20 bet that he can’t stay quiet for 1/2 an hour (this is maybe –EV, I should have gone for an hour) and he manages to pull it off, despite the fact that I paid a waitress $5 on the sly to go over and talk sexy to him and try and get his name.

Another annoying habit he had was to constantly try and involve me in his hands. Initially he would show me almost any hand he was involved in during the action, provided of course I wasn’t in the pot. At the start I was only too happy to do this because I love free information, but towards the end he got so annoying that I stopped looking. One time he asked me what he should do and, I gather, showed me his cards, even though I didn’t take my eyes off the pool game I was watching on TV (Jasmine Ouchan beat up on my pal Allison Fisher – sick!). “What should I do here?” he asked. Without even hesitating I said, “fold,” because he was so annoying, but I immediately realized that this is a major etiquette faux pas. It started a controversy and I apologized to everyone, insisting that I didn’t even look at the hand. I don’t remember the ruling, but I do remember laughing inside the whole time.

On another hand, he was facing a bet and slid the cards to me, indicating that he wanted me to look and I said, “not interested,” while flicking them back. However my flick wasn’t so +EV as I accidentally flicked his cards straight into the muck!

“What are you doing,” he screamed, “I had pocket jacks!”

“Really, sorry about that.” Truly the guy was the most annoying poker player ever, and I highly doubt he had JJ. I finally offered the table a $50 bounty to try and felt him but this would never be collected.

Despite this guy, I continue to nail people left and right. One other highlight was a board of Q J T where I held QT on the button. I had raised the pot and the small blind called two smallish bets on the flop and the turn, only for the board to pair tens on the river. I put him all in and he made a crying call with the AK he was trying to trap me with.

An hour or two later and I was done. I left at 6:00pm totally exhausted after an interesting 25 hour session, but elated with the turn of events that led to my best winner at 1/2 so far, in $600 and cash out $2211. No wonder my pool game is so rusty – who can do anything when there’s poker to be played?

Next - My Vegas trip report, including the date I made over the phone with the Bally's registration girl (if you want it, that is).

[Ignignokt]

Nice report.

[ QUOTE ]
Much of the buzz back here is centered on the fact that Shannon Elizabeth is playing in the 2/5 game across the aisle, as is an actor from the sitcom That 70’s Show. I can’t share with you who it was, because I’ve never seen the show and his back was to me (it definitely wasn’t Ashton Kutcher, though).

[/ QUOTE ]

Danny Masterson, duh. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[StinkWater]

I really enjoyed that report. Looking forward to hearing about the Bally's girl.

[Man of Means]

Exciting report. Don't understand all the pool lingo but the writing flowed well. Great job on the Jack-Ten hand.

[Obfuscation]

Nice report.

Loved the pool content too but must admit I'm not sure what game(s) we were playing there.

[dinopoker]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice report.

Loved the pool content too but must admit I'm not sure what game(s) we were playing there.

[/ QUOTE ]

We played Nine Ball and One Pocket

At nine ball, if I'm giving someone the 8, that means that he wins by making either the 8 or 9 ball, but I only win making the 9. It's a very modest handicap.

At one pocket, playing 10-8 means I must make 10 balls in my pocket while he only needs to make 8 in his. Since there are only 15 balls on the table to begin the game, this means that I start off the game 'owing' two balls. Thus the first two balls I make in my pocket will spot up after my turn. It's also a fairly modest handicap.

[Obfuscation]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nice report.

Loved the pool content too but must admit I'm not sure what game(s) we were playing there.

[/ QUOTE ]

We played Nine Ball and One Pocket

At nine ball, if I'm giving someone the 8, that means that he wins by making either the 8 or 9 ball, but I only win making the 9. It's a very modest handicap.

At one pocket, playing 10-8 means I must make 10 balls in my pocket while he only needs to make 8 in his. Since there are only 15 balls on the table to begin the game, this means that I start off the game 'owing' two balls. Thus the first two balls I make in my pocket will spot up after my turn. It's also a fairly modest handicap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aaaaaah, thank you. Now I appreciate it even more.

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of roll do you maintain for gambling on pool? And what would be considered a "large" game or whatever? Can you compare to poker limits? What sort of pool wager would be equivalent to a 1/2 NL vs. a 5/10 NL?

[dinopoker]

[ QUOTE ]

Aaaaaah, thank you. Now I appreciate it even more.

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of roll do you maintain for gambling on pool? And what would be considered a "large" game or whatever? Can you compare to poker limits? What sort of pool wager would be equivalent to a 1/2 NL vs. a 5/10 NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bets on pool matches are of all sizes and shapes and involve all kinds of crazy games. Most pool gambling takes place in the South, where other forms of gambling are harder to come by. Generally a large pool wager is $1000, though I have seen much, much larger games, going all the way up to $100,000. $1-2000 is the standard, though, when two good players matchup in one form or another.

I can't say what kind of bankroll you need - it depends on how well you play. If no one can beat you then you can work with smaller bankroll because you can often get staked. Many players do this very thing, constantly trying to find 'stakehorses' to play larger games.

[Obfuscation]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Aaaaaah, thank you. Now I appreciate it even more.

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of roll do you maintain for gambling on pool? And what would be considered a "large" game or whatever? Can you compare to poker limits? What sort of pool wager would be equivalent to a 1/2 NL vs. a 5/10 NL?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bets on pool matches are of all sizes and shapes and involve all kinds of crazy games. Most pool gambling takes place in the South, where other forms of gambling are harder to come by. Generally a large pool wager is $1000, though I have seen much, much larger games, going all the way up to $100,000. $1-2000 is the standard, though, when two good players matchup in one form or another.

I can't say what kind of bankroll you need - it depends on how well you play. If no one can beat you then you can work with smaller bankroll because you can often get staked. Many players do this very thing, constantly trying to find 'stakehorses' to play larger games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very interesting. I used to play a fair amount of pool for very small stakes compared to what you describe here, but haven't hung around a pool room in quite some time.

Gotta love all pool hustler stories.

[Runner Runner]

Very good report and nice session, it should have been $700 better though.

I cannot believe the mistake you made with the JT hand. This is a perfect situation for getting all the money in on the turn. This is why people who overplay flopped nut-straights without redraws in Omaha go broke. You should not give your opponent a chance to see the river and fold, get all the chips in the middle while you are freerolling.