NL25 - Small pot poker... don't know what I'm doing wrong

Jw513 · #1 10-09-2007, 03:52 PM

I have 4 hands where pots are small. Just looking for a line check and suggestions.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($34.95)
CO ($26.05)
Button ($51.20)
SB ($58)
Hero ($24.65)
UTG ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, A

.
1 fold, CO raises to $0.85, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60.

Flop: ($1.80) 5

, K

, 2

(3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($1.80) 8

[color=#0000FF](3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.2, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $1.80

^^ I didn’t want to cbet b/c I’ve been doing that a lot at this table. Do you give up AQ here?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($25.20)
UTG ($26.85)
MP ($28.75)
CO ($8)
Button ($17)
SB ($45.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with

,

.
2 folds, CO raises to $0.85, Button calls $0.85, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.60.

Flop: ($2.65)

,

(3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($2.65)

(3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets $2.65, Hero folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: $2.65

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

SB ($34.70)
BB ($29.40)
UTG ($50.85)
MP ($56.15)
Hero ($25.50)
Button ($24.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with

,

.
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.85, Button raises to $2.9, 2 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $2.05

^^ Is AQ good enough to play oop?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($49.85)
Hero ($27.30)
SB ($25.10)
BB ($24.70)
UTG ($21.90)
MP ($26.20)

Preflop: Hero is Button with

,

.
UTG raises to $0.85, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.85, 2 folds.

Flop: ($2.05)

,

(2 players)
UTG bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25.

Turn: ($4.55)

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3, UTG calls $3.

River: ($10.55)

(2 players)
UTG bets $9.25, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $10.55

Lego05 · #2 10-09-2007, 04:17 PM

Hand 1: Reraise pre-flop. As played fold to his bet.

Hand 2: Fold pre-flop. Sometimes reraise based on opponents. As played easy fold to his bet.

Hand 3: Good. You can do something else if he's been 3betting you a lot.

Hand 4: Ok.

CmnDwnWrkn · #3 10-09-2007, 04:22 PM

Hand 1: Since the flop missed you, and you're OOP, you should pretty much consider yourself done with the hand. Try to check it down and see a showdown (assuming the rest of the cards don't help you either). Also, its only considered c-betting if you are the preflop raiser. When you raise preflop and then bet out on the flop, that is a c-bet. It's a continuation of the strength you showed preflop. Since you just called preflop, you don't really have that option. This is why it is generally better to be the aggressor preflop, because you can win pots even if you don't make a hand on the flop. If you feel comfortable doing so, try mixing your play up by re-raising a cutoff or button raiser when you have a hand like AQ.

Hand 2: Basically the same thing as hand one. You flopped middle pair, but you're likely behind and you're OOP. Either check this one down. You could try betting out on the flop, since the board paired it's less likely that one of your opponents has an ace. But if you're met with resistance, you should be done with the hand.

The first two hands definitely illustrate why its hard to play when you are OOP and when you aren't the preflop aggressor. This isn't to say that you should NEVER play from the blinds or that you should NEVER flat call, but just recognize that you are in a weaker spot, and you should be more apt to fold if you don't connect with the flop strongly.

Hand 3: AQ is generally not strong enough to play OOP against a relatively large re-raise. There are some exceptions to this, like if you have a read that your opponent is re-raising with a wide range, or if the re-raise is small enough where you can see the flop for just a couple more cents. But generally, AQ doesn't play that well OOP against a strong reraise.

Hand 4: When you call with a small pocket pair, you are looking to flop a set. If you don't flop a set, you should lean heavily toward being done with the hand most of the time. Although, I don't mind floating sometimes like you did on the flop if you feel that your opponent is continuation betting a lot of hands

Waingro · #4 10-09-2007, 06:18 PM

1. It is fine. Rr pf is also fine except against the nittiest of nits.

2. Fold pf. And I can´t belive you folded the turn. Check call most rivers.

3. It is fine unless he has been doing it a lot.

4. I would probably check behind on the turn. Fold river.

Manchild84 · #5 10-09-2007, 07:30 PM

I think if you're going to play hand 4 after the flop, you should be raising, and not calling, especially if you're planning on floating. There aren't many good cards for you on the turn, so try and take it down on the flop. If he's got overcards, he probably folds, if he calls and you don't improve, check/fold out. (Added bonus, you'll probably get a free chance at your gutshot when he checks the turn)

members_only · #6 10-09-2007, 08:29 PM

(grunch)

1 - prefer a 3-bet pre. flop fine as played. i might lead or call the turn but folding isn't bad

2 - prefer fold pf. rest of hand seems standard

3 - obv very situational but typically fold the first time

4 - prob fold flop, as played why bet turn?

mookboi · #7 10-09-2007, 08:36 PM

Grunch:

Hand 1: Calling OOP with AQ sucks. I prefer 3betting or folding. After you call, as played, I play the same.

Hand 2: I fold this preflop. WTF, it's a raised call and we are OOP with a [censored] hand that's easily dominated. Fold.

As played, I fold turn. I sometimes bet/fold for like $2 here on flop and fold afterwards unimproved.

Hand 3: No. I fold AK here FWIW. Although 4betting is an option too for AK. Calling isn't though for AK nor AQ. Fold.

Hand 4: Fold flop. We are playing for set value only. We missed set, time to dip. 3rd pair + GS on drawy board sucks. As played, I like checking behind on turn too. Betting isn't bad, it's a scare card and he probably gives up here a lot, but unless you have a read on villain (you are looking for a decent villain who's able to lay a hand down), I fold.

Pokey · #8 10-09-2007, 08:46 PM

Hand #1.

Folding preflop is not a sin, here. With no read I usually assume that a preflop raise is strong. In this case, I'm either flipping a coin or dominated by AK. I see no powerful need to continue. If I knew villain was a blind thief, I'd raise preflop. Otherwise, I'd fold preflop and move on -- being out of position sucks.

As played, I check/fold the flop, check/fold the turn, and check/fold the river. I've got nothing, and I'm not going to pay off his JJ with my air.

Hand #2.

I fold preflop. Against AK or AQ we're dogmeat. Given a preflop raise AND another caller, given that we're three-way and out of position and our hand is easily dominated, I let it go preflop. The best advice I can give you on defending your blinds is "don't." Most players lose more money trying to defend their blinds than they would lose if they just instafolded every time someone tried to steal. Don't be a statistic -- just let it go.

As played, I check/fold the flop, but I lead the turn. That second ace on the board makes it even less likely that someone has another one. I've got top two with the best kicker, so I'm beating any other K besides AK or KK, both of which are unlikely. If I get called, I'm probably check/folding the river (though I'll call if the bet is small enough). Most villains with weaker hands are going to give me a free showdown, so I'm happy with that line. Also, if I get raised on the turn I'll fold to the raise.

Hand #3.

Without a read (AGAIN, *sigh*) I see folding here as perfectly acceptable. OOP with an easily dominated hand you will either win a small pot or lose a big one. Why risk it?

Hand #4.

Preflop is fine, but I check/fold the flop, turn, and river. I'm playing for set value, I missed, someone still likes their hand, I'm done. Period. End of story. uNL is no place to get all frisky with steal attempts, especially against total unknowns.

Give me reads and I might change my lines.

Nick C · #9 10-09-2007, 08:55 PM

Hand 1: I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with what you did, but the other two main options are: (1) 3-bet preflop and go from there, and (2) As played, bet the turn and see what Villain does.

#1 has its risks (it's not going to be a small pot anymore, although on the other hand you might take it down immediately). And for #2, if Villain called the turn, I would basically give up, unless I spiked an A or Q, in which case I would probably check and call, unless Villain bet huge after my check, in which case I would likely fold.

If you bet the turn and Villain immediately raises, then he probably had a set or AK. (And, given the popularity of the preflop-raise/flop-check-upon-catching play, this turn raise won't be so rare as one might expect.)

Hand 2: Yeah, fine. I would actually consider folding preflop in this one.

Hand 3: Seems fine. The landscape seems to me to be changing a bit, but all the same preflop 3-bets from unknowns do tend to mean very strong hands. And even if this Villain has a wider range, we don't know that, and what's frequently going to happen when we miss is that we'll check, Villain will bet his A9o or whatever that also missed, and he'll take the pot.

Hand 4: Perfect. What a "tricky" Villain [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Nick C · #10 10-09-2007, 09:06 PM

Okay, I've read the responses now, and I'm going to explain my response for #4, which goes something like this:

If you're playing low PPs strictly for set value HU versus a PFR, you're not going to make enough money those times you flop your set to make up for all the times you miss, especially against someone who c-bets regularly. Do you guys really stack your opponent HU nearly every time you flop a set? I don't even come close to doing so.

I know we weren't given any reads here, but I would rather fold my PP preflop than fold to a c-bet against an unknown on this rag flop (that also even handed us a gutshot, in addition to quite likely the best hand versus overs).

Meanwhile, our turn bet is frequently going to take it down once we're checked to. Granted, a better hand is unlikely to fold, and worse hands won't call often, but hand protection does count for a little something. (I'll admit, though, that the turn might've brought an over to Villain's better PP and also might've inspired a tricky "good fortune" check from Villain with AQ, and these are reasons to think about checking, but on, say, a 2d turn and a check from Villain, I definitely like a bet.)

Edit: Anyway, A73, K94, and even QT6 flops are good ones to fold on HU to a 2/3 pot c-bet from an unknown when holding a low PP that missed, but I don't think this one is.