Bankroll Suggestions for High Buyin MTTS

[JayPez]

After Reading Andathars Post in the MKind P5 thread i was wondering about bankroll guidelines for high buyin MTT's.

After a big score i got my bankroll up to 50k a few months back. Instantly moved up to play the 100r's on stars etc using the 5x 100 buyins for a rebuy. Using that rule i'm rolled for it, At the time i wasn't sure i had much edge, but i figured i would learn a lot playing it (which i have). However like others, after maybe 50 tourneys i'm down quite a bit in it. Also adding it to my MTT schedule sends my increases my varience [censored].

I've been playing some of the below tournaments, but i'm not sure i have enough roi% to be actually rolled for them.

So what are guidelines for bankrolls you should have for these tourneys below.

Stars $100r
Full Tilt $100r's
Stars Weekly Saturday $320fo
Fult Tilt Weekly Saturday 6max $320fo
$500 sats (like full tilt aussie mill sats)
$500 Ultimate Bet sunday
$1k sats (Stars EPT Weekly sats)
Absolute $1k
Full Tilt/Stars $1k
FTOPS / WCOOP $1k's
$2.5k online tourneys with lots of sats.

Other obscure Sites

PokerRoom Monthly (loads of sats)$1k
Party Highrollers (no sats)$500
Pokerroom $650 Sats to ept etc

Live Tourneys
Random $500
Random $1k
Random $2.5k

Thanks in advance for help, gives me something to aim for.

JP

[LearnedfromTV]

Ok I'll play.

These are just first-impression conservative estimates, enough to give a solid winner, say someone good enough to beat mid stakes nl cash/with the equivalent amount of skill for mtts, near 0 risk of ruin.

Stars $100r 150k
Full Tilt $100r's 150k
Stars Weekly Saturday $320fo 50k
Fult Tilt Weekly Saturday 6max $320fo 50k
$500 sats (like full tilt aussie mill sats) 100k
$500 Ultimate Bet sunday50k
$1k sats (Stars EPT Weekly sats)150k
Absolute $1k 150k
Full Tilt/Stars $1k 200k
FTOPS / WCOOP $1k's 100k
$2.5k online tourneys with lots of sats. 250k

Other obscure Sites

PokerRoom Monthly (loads of sats)$1k 100k
Party Highrollers (no sats)$500 50k
Pokerroom $650 Sats to ept etc 100k

Live Tourneys
Random $500 $500
Random $1k $1000
Random $2.5k $2500

j/k. 50 buyins probably plenty for live though.

"Online $2500s" is a little silly as a category; there's a couple a year, and mtt bankrolling is always going to include a spread between average buyin and highest buyin. there's plenty of room for shot-taking, too. Playing one $1k doesn't mean you have to play them regularly.

Satellite estimates probably look high but actually they're probably low, since the prize you win is high variance itself.

[JayPez]

thanks thats a great post lftv, exactly what i was looking for

Pez

[n1232]

Really $150K for the $100 rebuys? That seems a bit much. I would think $100K would be more than enough no?

[Sherman]

NM. Re-read LFTV's post.

Sherman

[djk123]

i think 150k is an absurd number for 100rs

[dmk]

originally i thought 150k as well, but given its such a small field, 100k is probably sufficient

[Hawklet]

explain how the 1k sats require more of a bankroll than the WCOOP

sats are waay lower variance than big MTTs (not even near enough to adjust for the skill difference

I'd say that 50k is definitely enough for the 1k sats to the WSOP ME

[kutuz_off]

[ QUOTE ]
explain how the 1k sats require more of a bankroll than the WCOOP

sats are waay lower variance than big MTTs (not even near enough to adjust for the skill difference

I'd say that 50k is definitely enough for the 1k sats to the WSOP ME

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you don't get any money out of 1K sats, only seats to events for which you are underrolled unless your bankroll is around 500K?

[LearnedfromTV]

Explanation of a couple of my estimates -

I don't play the 109r, but everyone says it's the toughest online tournament, and my sense is that to do well in it requires playing a high-variance game, or at least dealing with those who play a high-variance game, which requires accepting additional variance. If our good, solid winner has something like 25% roi, it wouldn't be unusual for him to cash only 10 or 15 times in a run of 200 109r, spending maybe $500 a pop. If those cashes are small, you're approaching -$100k. A worse stretch is certainly possible. There are variance/roi simulators out there that can calc this stuff exactly (although the assumptions are always somewhat contrived), but my guess is that a 25% winner w/ 100k would have a meaningfully non-zero risk of ruin. Very likely single digits, but not < 1%. Combine that with the whole run bad -----> play bad thing, plus the option to go off for 2k is always available...

Run bad play bad and the tendency to overrate your own ability/roi applies to all bankroll questions.

As for satellites, others covered my thinking there.

I probably didn't account for field size enough w.r.t. to the soft wcoop/million/ftops $1ks vs the tougher weeklies, but whatever, those are infrequent anyway.

Also, it's assumed that having this big of a cushion means you can take shots liberally. Someone with 100k who plays the $1ks/100rs sometimes, buys into some wsop events, and the wcoop m.e. is obviously fine. Generally, average buyin is a better gauge imo than the "if I were to play the event only an infinite number of times, how much $ do I need?" approach.