The rake is unacceptable

[Potabuser]

I have many times thought of different rake models.

1. No rake is taken out of pots during play. Only when a
player leaves the table, the site will then take a
given percent of the net win of that player, e.g. 10%?

If a player buys in for total of $200 on a 100nl table,
and leaves with $190, he will not pay any rake.
If he leaves with $350 he will pay 10% rake of the net
win of $150 = $15.

I think this model is vey fair to the fishes, because
if they are losing players they will pay "no" rake
(only the few occasions they manage to leave the table
with a tiny profit).
Of course the given percent (10) can vary, it was just
an example.

2. Weekly rake of net win.
Once a week the site will take 10% of the net win
during that week.
Of course the given percent (10) can vary, it was just
an example.

This way the losing players will not pay much rake.

[TheEye]

fish!

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]

Then how on earth do you know you are not getting ripped off? Thats my whole point.

[/ QUOTE ]


Because I'm willing to pay what the market is offering here. If you're not then don't play. Yelling and kicking and screaming, "I'm getting ripped-off..OMGZZZ!!!" is not very likely to get Stars to change their rake structure.

120k players online at a time with all kinds of good game-selection in a zillion games that ARE beatable in spite of the rake AND a generous FPP system leave me in a position where I find the situation to be worthwhile.

When I go to a bar and order a beer for $5 it's up to me whether I want to pay that or not even though I know they paid nowhere NEAR $5 to pour that bad-boy out of the tap.
But just because they are making a huge percentage profit on that beer AND I'm somewhat obligated to tip doesn't make it a rip-off. If I enjoy the atmosphere of the bar and want the beer then I pay the $5.

I'm sure that Stars could charge less on their games and get away with it and still make a nice profit...just as I'm sure that the bar I go to could easily get away with charging me $2 for the beer they served me instead of $5.
I don't really care what percentage of profit Stars makes. It could cost them $0.00001 to run all their games combined for all I care plus another $3.22 for their support.

If the rake-structure and other factors are such that I find the games to be worthwhile then I will play there.

I would occasionally play the British pounds tables on crypto back when they were available to U.S. customers. They rake 3 pounds on a hand instead of $3 which effectively doubles the rake pretty much. But if the game was good then I was willing to pay that extra rake to sit with a couple of super-fish.
If the game wasn't good then I would play on tables/sites where the rake structure was better.
It was entirely up to me.
Just as it's up to you too.

If the rake situation bothers you THAT much then you can always play on smaller sites like WSEX or other prop-sites that are offering 75%-100% RB to attract players.
I usually prefer to play on the sites that have attracted 120k+ players online at a given time though. And with the FPP and VIP system at Stars I'm satisfied with the level of RB I receive.

I have played live-poker before. The rake is significantly higher there. Like insanely higher in some places and I'm not getting RB there either...just the occasional comp.
I don't sit there and whine and complain about it. It's up to me whether I want to play there or not.

Seriously, there are so many sites out there and by offering different levels of rakeback they are effectively offering different levels of rake. If you want to play where there are a zillion players then the bigger sites are places to go obviously.
And the bigger sites have so many players who don't notice the rake or care that they are going to continue to charge what they feel the market will bear.

[geormiet]

I actually agree with the people saying the rake is ridiculous.

I've made the world of warcraft comparison before. Before rakeback, I'm paying around $8k/month to play on software that is about 4 years dated. It's true that poker sites have operating costs that world of warcraft doesn't (as well as fewer customers) but $8k/month is beyond ridiculous for the service that I am receiving for playing around 25 hrs a week. If anyone disagrees with that, then we don't have a discussion.

RE: the $500 monthly idea. This would work if a site wanted it to. They wouldn't say "before you play, we need $500." Instead they could just rake like normal, but cap it at $500 per month. Or they could offer you the option of paying rake like normal, or paying $500 a month instead.

Both of which are unlikely to be welcomed by a site, because the huge cut in profits would probably nowhere near make up the players it attracts.


Listen, in the future when poker is legalized/regulated whatever, the rake will go down. Competition will do this. Yes, some fish are stupid. A lot of fish however aren't. Also, there are really easy ways for sites to make less rake appealing in recreational players' eyes. Namely, bonuses, raking and paying it back at the end of the week a la wsex, or clever marketing schemes that explain how much of an effect their lower rake makes.

[sethypooh21]

I'm yet to be convinced that there is sufficient price elasticity of demand for online poker for lowering the rake to be a profitable move for poker sites. If you think the rake is too high, don't pay. If you think $9.50 is too much to see a first run movie, don't go. This isn't, like difficult.

[aos08]

Many people are much more aware now of what they pay than a few years ago.

Maybe it is now time for a rake free poker site.

[finbop6631]

Honestly, after playing at local clubs on Long island.. internet rake seems like a fraction to me.

[CORed]

ZOMG! Online poker rooms are in business to make money! Unacceptable! Why can't they be charities?

[CORed]

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, after playing at local clubs on Long island.. internet rake seems like a fraction to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same for casino poker. Rake, time charges or whatever are the price of playing poker. No reason not to look for the best price, but they're in business to make a profit, so you need to learn to play well enough to have something left over after the rake.

[sethypooh21]

[ QUOTE ]
so you need to learn to play well enough to have something left over after the rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

This should be the indelible take away from this thread. Not holding my breath, but...