$16 - QQ on JJ4 flop (lots o' action)

Prodigy54321 · #1 06-20-2006, 07:40 PM

after my 124% ROI dropped to a 8% ROI I decided to move up [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP3 (t1890)
CO (t990)
Button (t1485)
SB (t1595)
BB (t1525)
UTG (t1575)
UTG+1 (t1000)
Hero (t1525)
MP2 (t1915)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to t200, MP2 calls t200, 1 fold, CO calls t200, Button calls t200, 2 folds.

Flop: (t875) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero ???

err what's the plan?

AMT · #2 06-20-2006, 07:51 PM

lead all in

AnthonyH · #3 06-20-2006, 07:54 PM

shove then punch a wall when button turns over j2o

ALReturnsLOL · #4 06-20-2006, 07:58 PM

I don't bet here. Check and see the action. Try and keep the pot small this a is a WA/WB situation. You need to see how your opponents act. Sorry to say I totally disagree with AMT [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Let me give you mt reasoning. Ok first off a Jack is not folding whether you bet 1 chip or 1 million chips. So what does going all-in accomplish anyway? I mean I doubt alot of lower pocket pairs call here. Maybe if the someone was a complete numbskull, but still a Jack is a fairly likely card for them to have. Check and see what the action is, this would be a case were I would use Rizen's timing tell (which is pretty acurate for situations like this.) Again keep the pot small and act accordingly.

NevadaKaz · #5 06-20-2006, 07:59 PM

My instinct is to check, or bet 1/2 pot.

Surely if we push a majority of the hands that call have us beat ?

bjb23 · #6 06-20-2006, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
lead all in

[/ QUOTE ]

eww i hate this. all hands that have us crushed call and very very few hands that we crush call the allin.

i check, evaluate action, act accordingly.

Prodigy54321 · #7 06-20-2006, 08:07 PM

word, I don't like pushing either..

if we are planning to get everything in here, even just betting out t400 or so and calling a push would be better than open pushing IMO...it gives them a chance to come over the top with a PP here...and it's not as if simply betting t400 instead of pushing will not push out overs or something..

checking and seeing hte others action another option, although I don't think we can fold to just 1 person's action here..I think it's have to be a bet and a raise in order to make it a fold..or at least a bet and a call...

but anyway, I like them both over a push

Kn0wClue · #8 06-20-2006, 08:13 PM

my first thought was 2 push, then i read AL's post and it made a lot of sense. Opp are drawing thin if behind to 3 outs tops here unless they just called with AK pf then it would be 6. the question now would be how big of a bet would you call AlReturns or would you move over the top with a push? also, how big does the bet need to be for you to fold if you can fold this. i think on this flop that other PP play this too fast thinking we had big cards, and i would be inclined to check and either push over the top of a bet or if checked bet 1/2 pot on turn for value if no ace or king came.

EscapePlan9 · #9 06-20-2006, 08:35 PM

3 others, likely very loose players, and I find the fishies favorite hands often include J-something, especially QJ. WA/WB situation right here.

AMT · #10 06-20-2006, 08:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't bet here. Check and see the action. Try and keep the pot small this a is a WA/WB situation. You need to see how your opponents act. Sorry to say I totally disagree with AMT [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Let me give you mt reasoning. Ok first off a Jack is not folding whether you bet 1 chip or 1 million chips. So what does going all-in accomplish anyway? I mean I doubt alot of lower pocket pairs call here. Maybe if the someone was a complete numbskull, but still a Jack is a fairly likely card for them to have. Check and see what the action is, this would be a case were I would use Rizen's timing tell (which is pretty acurate for situations like this.) Again keep the pot small and act accordingly.

[/ QUOTE ]

though i agree with many of your points, AL, hero isnt going to fold to a bet, and just calling a flop bet is a mistake, IMO, as youd die if an overcard comes. what do you plan on doing? if flop checks do you lead turn into 4 opponents? wouldnt you be leading all in there also for same reasons as flop? youre losing all of your money to a J anyways, but lower PPs are in villains' ranges...even A K might fish here in a 16. case in point, youre ahead of villains ranges when they bet, and its not going to be checked down, and to call down and find out youve lost to a J and be left with 2 BBs is just as big of a mistake. that being said, maybe shoving all in isnt the best play, but i dont think checking is good either.