Help with understanding pot odds

cjs · #1 10-13-2007, 12:01 PM

I usally fold this without even thinking about it but after reviewing my hands I wondered if I should think about these type of hands.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets, CO raises, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets, Button calls, SB folds, Hero folds, MP calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

See if I get this right - on the turn when it comes back to me I think I have 5.5 outs. The pot odds are 10% 2/19 and the out odds are 12% 5.5/46 so this should be a call?

kitaristi0 · #2 10-13-2007, 12:02 PM

Flop is a fold.

istewart · #3 10-13-2007, 12:07 PM

You got to fold the flop here dude - not a close decision. Depending on the action I'd often fold for one bet too, as you could be in horrible shape already and/or suffer major RIO if you hit. Pretty inconsistent IMO to call two on the flop but fold for one on such a harmless turn (not saying calling the turn is +EV, just that given your previous line you should be calling). You don't have 5.5 outs on the turn; 5 in a best case scenario and that is rarely the case. I'm not going to stove it now but I would guess 3 is a OK, if generous, amount to give you.

mute · #4 10-13-2007, 12:12 PM

5.5 outs? 3 sixes and 2 sevens and..? 4-4.5 outs at most I would say.

Calling flop and folding turn makes no sense, though. You're getting better odds on the turn (but not good enough).

So fold flop, fold turn.

cjs · #5 10-13-2007, 12:18 PM

What are you discounting? I have the 6s and the 7s is on the board.

Oink · #6 10-13-2007, 12:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Calling flop and folding turn makes no sense, though

[/ QUOTE ]

Definetely.

Something is way of OP. You are getting better odds on the turn and theat card is a brick.

Calling flop and folding turn is like buying a ferrari cuz you like to drive fast and then selling it cuz its too fast [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

cjs · #7 10-13-2007, 12:27 PM

You can't play poker if you can't count. 4.5 is what it should be. So 4.5/46 9.7% still good?

istewart · #8 10-13-2007, 12:37 PM

I'm discounting both the 6s and the 7s. Odds that someone has Q7/T7/77 and you're dead, odds that someone has A7 and you have 3 outs, if someone has QT or someone has 89 your outs are tainted, etc.

Gurravasa · #9 10-13-2007, 12:44 PM

why bother counting, It's a bet and a raise in a small pot and our hand sucks, you should not need to count to know that this is a fold you should feel it in your backbone.

mvoss · #10 10-13-2007, 01:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You can't play poker if you can't count. 4.5 is what it should be. So 4.5/46 9.7% still good?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty arrogant, there's no way in hell you have 4.5 outs here. Look at that board and tell me how you got to 4.5. I'd even say 3 is a little generous.