AP Visit: I'm going to Costa Rica

[mooz3]

Names need to be released. People need to be prosecuted. Full disclosure of ownership history. Complete statements from all of those accused.

AND Absolute Poker goes out of business. Anything less then people don't deserve a nickel returned. There is zero chance for any type of legal online poker in the United States in the near future if these people aren't put out of business and locked up.

Accepting less will only hurt poker and poker players.

[Gildwulf]

adanthar and nat should both go, if it is not feasible on the AP budget I'm sure we can figure it out moneywise on BBV

[TonyRoflmao]

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AP going down the tubes because of this scandal would be a good thing for online poker if it served as a shot across the bow of the other poker sites that they have to redouble/retriple their efforts to ensure the intergrity of the games that they offer.

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That shot's already been fired, dozens of ships have changed course, the fleet is going places and the sailors have taken battle stations. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

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Adanthar is right on here. I think people should appreciate how much has been achieved so far, the tremendous service Nat, Adanthar, Josem, Adam Small and Druff have done by using their positions in this community to activate a flurry of democratic activity.

Also, even if Scott Tom started AP, there are certainly people involved in the ownership / shell companies who have the power to buy him out and remove him. He started the company straight out of college, so there have obviously been investors with real power since the beginning who may not have been active in running day-to-day operations, but have the power to remove corrupt and/or incompetent people from the business.

I think Nat is an ideal person to go due to his understanding of poker, and data mining / analyzing poker-data. An ideal companion for Nat would be an experienced attorney who specialized in international business (played by Jessica Biel in the movie version of course). While Nat can spot cheating, and assess the mechanism(s) used to read hole cards, as well ass potentially spot other possible ways AP management was cheating (BBJ skimming, rakeback skimming, etc.), an attorney with a background in setting up international businesses using private shell companies could analyze whether or not the guilty parties have been adequately removed.

[e_phemeral]

For the record, I'm not directing any negativity towards Nat. I don't know Nat. All that I know of Nat is that, based upon my review of these forums, he seems to have been instrumental in uncovering cheating at Absolute. And now he is going down to visit Absolute in Costa Rica, at their request, which I think will only serve to help Absolute.

[SL__72]

Well they did provide these forums, which helped create a pretty unique online community and also provided a central location for this investigation to be discussed/carried out by said community.

Also, Mason's first post on the subject:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1
shows his position pretty well I think. It sounds a lot like what Adanthar/Nat are saying now.

[imabigdeal]

definitely, nobody go alone

[whangarei]

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For the record, I'm not directing any negativity towards Nat. I don't know Nat. All that I know of Nat is that, based upon my review of these forums, he seems to have been instrumental in uncovering cheating at Absolute. And now he is going down to visit Absolute in Costa Rica, at their request, which I think will only serve to help Absolute.

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Agreed. I mean what do we expect, Nat is gonna catch Scott Tom darting into an office as Nat turns the corner?

[Jimbo232]

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Did you hang on to any audit workplans from your Big 4 days?

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I thought our audits were retarded. I don't think we would ever catch anyone doing anything.

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Ha. I know what you mean. There is usually a hole in every system on some level or a way to avoid the auditors in the limited time they are around. I always kind of figured you were on the consulting side of things as you didn't strike me as an auditor.

Again thanks and good luck with you trip if you decide to go.

[wolfbeo]

nat,

i'm sure you know this- but anyway: ask VERY concrete questions (not "when was acount xxx created", but "on which day was it creates").

insist on concrete answers. if the person you talk to says he doesn't know those detail - ask for the person who does. if say to you, they can't tell because of ongoing-investigation/security - make them explain why.

take extensive notes and review them daily and intensely - if there is something unclear or easy to misunderstand, ask again.

they are going to lull you - be a polite pain in the a**, they wanted you down there.

be sure to take second person. someone who complements your assets.

and yeah, please ask them for the technical details, how the cheating was done.

sorry for the gibberish, buts is verry late over here.

[GaryTheGoat]

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Nat - I think you are right on target with most of your thoughts, don't listen to the negative responses, I doubt there are many here who could do a better job with this than you. Did you hang on to any audit workplans from your Big 4 days?

I tend to agree with ED that this will be Absolute putting on a front represented by their best and most personable employees. Without access to their systems and data the chance of you uncovering anything substantial is pretty thin.

The only recommendations I would give is to try to sit down for some discussions with a Certified Information Systems Auditor or anyone with significant audit experience to flesh out a good plan for your trip. Anyone with experience in the field could probably provide some good insight. The more clearly defined goals you have going down to Costa Rica the less AP's "front" will effect your judgment.

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Good...and I'm still thinkin', I promise. This is important.

Nat,
Are there any time constraints imposed by anyone?

gg