need some examples

[Guruman]

k, I need some solid profitable real-life nl examples of a few lines. Please post a hand where you both actually took the line and felt it was the best option. If you need a read or a specific stack size to make a line profitable, please include it.

1)multiway flop checkraise
2)raise pf, get coldcalled behind, check to coldcaller.
3)raise pf, bet flop, check through turn intending to raise a river bet. (this one may not exist)

and a couple of one-card flush lines (assume 100bb stacks here):

1F)you raise 4x and get called by a blind. you catch a non-nut one card flush draw on a mono flop, cont bet 2/3rds and get called. the turn brings in the flush and villain checks. action?

2F)villain raises 4x from ep and you defend the bb with a mid pp. the flop comes mono giving you a medium flush draw. you check, and villain cont bets. action?

3F)assume you just call and the turn brings in the flush. action?

thx!

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
3)raise pf, bet flop, check through turn intending to raise a river bet. (this one may not exist)

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't what you would do. Generally if you check the turn with a hand that has value, you're trying to induce a river bluff. In which case you'll just call. There's no value in raising a bluff.

[Guruman]

what if effective stack sizes were getting smallish there and we felt we had a loose villain?

ex, raise AQpf, get called, cont bet QXY flop and villain has a about 2/3 of the pot left behind after he calls. the turn is low and he checks...

if we bet we're getting called by anything he's stacking off with, but if we check he's betting 100% of those hands on the river anyway, plus we get the added bonus of collecting his stack when he improves to a 2nd best hand with the free card, and if he bets small we're pushing back regardless.

correct?

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
what if effective stack sizes were getting smallish there and we felt we had a loose villain?

ex, raise AQpf, get called, cont bet QXY flop and villain has a about 2/3 of the pot left behind after he calls. the turn is low and he checks...

if we bet we're getting called by anything he's stacking off with, but if we check he's betting 100% of those hands on the river anyway, plus we get the added bonus of collecting his stack when he improves to a 2nd best hand with the free card, and if he bets small we're pushing back regardless.

correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

In the given example, I would generally just push the turn. You don't have as much FE against a shortstacked loose opponent, so you can expect a lot of calls. This is better than giving him the chance to suck out a second pair or trips without making a mistake in doing so.

[Guruman]

fair enough. any thoughts on the other stuff?

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
2)raise pf, get coldcalled behind, check to coldcaller.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should do this somewhat regularly. You don't have to continuation bet EVERY flop, even if it is HU. So if you are OOP and you completely missed the flop, it's okay to meekly check/fold some of the time. This increases your fold equity for future c-bets (if your opponents are at all observant) -- which may or may not be a good thing depending on how your opponents play and how you play.

Remember in NL you are playing for stacks not small pots. You need to grab your share of the small pots to win (especially against weak tight players), but you don't need to try and grab every single one. At the low limits, I am sure you can c-bet 100% of the time and not suffer too much for it, but I imagine that it is a bad habit to get into when you start playing in tougher games.

[AZK]

[ QUOTE ]
k, I need some solid profitable real-life nl examples of a few lines. Please post a hand where you both actually took the line and felt it was the best option. If you need a read or a specific stack size to make a line profitable, please include it.

1)multiway flop checkraise
2)raise pf, get coldcalled behind, check to coldcaller.
3)raise pf, bet flop, check through turn intending to raise a river bet. (this one may not exist)

and a couple of one-card flush lines (assume 100bb stacks here):

1F)you raise 4x and get called by a blind. you catch a non-nut one card flush draw on a mono flop, cont bet 2/3rds and get called. the turn brings in the flush and villain checks. action?

2F)villain raises 4x from ep and you defend the bb with a mid pp. the flop comes mono giving you a medium flush draw. you check, and villain cont bets. action?

3F)assume you just call and the turn brings in the flush. action?

thx!

[/ QUOTE ]

1) this is 10-20 live, utg opens for 100, 4 callers, I call 98s in the BB. Pot is like 600, flop is 876 two tone. check, UTG bets 400, 2 calls, I shove 3.5k.

2) this i like to do against nits... raise 33, they call flop comes K82r, check to the cold caller, he bets, raise. This is a much easier play live, cause you know they have osmething like Kxo or 99 and will lay down.

3) is read/stack dependent but can be done with a lot. much easier to pull live.

1f: bet
2f: muck
3f: check

[Warren Harding]

[ QUOTE ]
1)multiway flop checkraise

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one and you all can tell me if it sucks:

4 limpers, I check in the BB w/ K9o. Flop: 952r. Small pot, marginal hand, most of the opponents behind me would either peel for a PSB, fold worse hands, flat call better ones. In all, a poor spot OOP.

Checks to button who bet 1/2 PSB. My read on him is that he bets this way w/ any piece or any homeless pot. I raise expecting to take down a small pot often.

[ QUOTE ]

1F)you raise 4x and get called by a blind. you catch a non-nut one card flush draw on a mono flop, cont bet 2/3rds and get called. the turn brings in the flush and villain checks. action?

2F)villain raises 4x from ep and you defend the bb with a mid pp. the flop comes mono giving you a medium flush draw. you check, and villain cont bets. action?

3F)assume you just call and the turn brings in the flush. action?


[/ QUOTE ]

1F) I'd typically suck-bet the turn and river if I feel my flush is best. I could also check through the turn to induce a river bluff, but I feel the opponent will be too scared for this line to be work often.

2F) CR. fold to a RR; probably c-f a blank turn (a lot depends though).

3F) a lot depends on the opponent. I'd most likely check call or bet fold, but every line is possible.

[Guruman]

azk es muy hombre.

I love your scenario for situation 1. That's exactly what I was looking for.

secnario 2: 2) this i like to do against nits... raise 33, they call flop comes K82r, check to the cold caller, he bets, raise. This is a much easier play live, cause you know they have osmething like Kxo or 99 and will lay down. is of course the polar opposite of sweetjazz's post. I think the crux of it comes down to what we generically put a late p coldcaller on. If its usually a pocket pair, then AZK play is super cool. if its wider then cont betting may end up being best.

3) is read/stack dependent but can be done with a lot. much easier to pull live.

I'd love to see a specific example or two.

[Guruman]

warrenH,

I think you're reverting to too much of a limit mindset with your flush lines.

1F) I'd typically suck-bet the turn and river if I feel my flush is best. I could also check through the turn to induce a river bluff, but I feel the opponent will be too scared for this line to be work often.

If villain's folding most non-fluush hands here then there seems to be little value to a turn bet. Also, since our made hand is not going to improve further and we don't want to get blown off of it, it seems like checking through and then making a river decision is better than risking the stack on the turn. If villain is flushing higher, he'll tend bet a similar amount as his bluffs if we check the river. If we bet the turn though, we're likely to either get checkraised or led into on the river in a bigger pot - which is crap for us. The check-through line is very limit based line, but the logic still seems to hold true for me there. I think if you're getting two late street value bets out of a weak flush on a fourflushed board then your villain won't be at the table for long. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

2F) CR. fold to a RR; probably c-f a blank turn (a lot depends though). can you give a speicific example here? Still feels strangely limit-based, as my instinct is to try to set a bet size to get to showdown from oop - or check and see if he's going to push you off or not. Checkraising feels super dangerous without microstacks.

3F) a lot depends on the opponent. I'd most likely check call or bet fold, but every line is possible.

again, i'm looking for specific lines even vs specific villains because I need to get the concepts right in my feeble nl mind. any actualy hands played would be great.