Love it or leave it...put up or shut up...and other such sentiments

[elwoodblues]

This question is meant in all seriousness...I'm not a "love it or leave it" kind of guy (at all.) But today I was thinking about the various AC positions on this board and I wondered why someone who really bought in to the whole AC thing would choose to stay in the US. Why choose to live under such an oppressive system when there is literally no chance whatsoever that the oppression will end in your lifetime? In your view, depending on your tax bracket, there is an entity out there that is literally taking 1/3 of your income and yet you sit by and let them do it. You watch as day in and day your liberty is taken from you and what do you do? You submit to the oppression.

Honestly, which is worse: someone who doesn't believe that they are being oppressed (even though you believe they are being oppressed) and goes on doing what they are doing; or someone who believes that they are being constantly oppressed (literally every second of the day --- oppressed by government taking your money and telling you what you can and cannot do) and, despite that belief, they acquiesce?

[Nielsio]

It seems that you too think that there is oppression in the US.

It also seems that you haven't left it.

Why would those reasons be any different from others'?

[ConstantineX]

Transaction costs + Infrastructure + Adv. Capital (Financial) Institutions.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
This question is meant in all seriousness...I'm not a "love it or leave it" kind of guy (at all.) But today I was thinking about the various AC positions on this board and I wondered why someone who really bought in to the whole AC thing would choose to stay in the US. Why choose to live under such an oppressive system when there is literally no chance whatsoever that the oppression will end in your lifetime? In your view, depending on your tax bracket, there is an entity out there that is literally taking 1/3 of your income and yet you sit by and let them do it. You watch as day in and day your liberty is taken from you and what do you do? You submit to the oppression.

Honestly, which is worse: someone who doesn't believe that they are being oppressed (even though you believe they are being oppressed) and goes on doing what they are doing; or someone who believes that they are being constantly oppressed (literally every second of the day --- oppressed by government taking your money and telling you what you can and cannot do) and, despite that belief, they acquiesce?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I shouldn't have to leave. Because the other alternatives are worse. Because I would rather stay and try to make a change, however futile the effort. Who is worse, someone who doesn't like the status quo and tries to peacefully convince others to agree with him that a sea change needs to occur, or someone who tells theat person to STFU and GTFO?

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
Because I shouldn't have to leave

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. The alternatives are to try to change the system (which has little/no hope of success) or live with the oppression.

[ QUOTE ]
Who is worse, someone who doesn't like the status quo and tries to peacefully convince others to agree with him that a sea change needs to occur, or someone who tells theat person to STFU and GTFO

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on the extent to which you don't like the status quo. If you are trying to make minor changes to the status quo...changes that have some likelihood of success...then I would say the person telling you to get out is worse. If you are SO fed up with the status quo that only a drastic change that would fundamentally alter the foundations of society would make you not feel oppressed (a change that has little to no chance of actually being implemented), then my opinion would change.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that you too think that there is oppression in the US.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think is some oppression in the United States that has a reasonable chance of being remedied. This is very different than thinking the very foundation of the society is corrupt and oppressing.

[Borodog]

So, this is apparently just another more subtle form of STFU and GTFO? "It seems like you think that the current society is "too" oppressive, beyond what I subjectively ascertain to be the "tolerable oppression cutoff", so why don't you just leave?"

Does that sum it up?

[AlexM]

Where else can we go? Every other country is as bad or worse. I'm not choosing "to live under such an oppressive system," I simply don't have any options. This country at least used to be better and still has a ton of people who want it to improve, which is more than can be said for anywhere else. Futhermore, if the people ever realize that the government is ignoring the Constitution and restrict them to it, this country will quickly become way better than any other.


Also, even if I were able to find a country that's slightly better, it's not exactly easy to become a citizen in another country if you're not rich.

[elwoodblues]

Obviously there are levels of tolerable oppression. I guess my understanding of how oppressive ACers thought the current system was wrong.

Let me put it this way...I have never been in a situation where I felt oppressed ALL THE TIME - where every transaction was oppressive, where walking down the street I felt oppressed because of the terrible monopolistic power of government. I have never felt that the current system is so oppressive that the only way for it not to be oppressive is its dismantling.

If I felt that way, I can't imagine that I'd stick around.

[John Kilduff]

Hi Elwood,

Here is why:

John Silveira

Sorry no Cliff Notes now, as I must go out. It's a one-page easy read and puts it very well.