choose my action, deep multiway

[Parlay Slow]

Ribbo,

Do you think you could back that up with some analysis?

[FireStorm]

I don't like this hand very much preflop.

Flop, this deep you are right, checking is fine. However, I wouldn't fault a bet.

Turn, problem with just calling is that you get paid zippo when you hit the nut club flush, and the heart flush will be good very, very rarely.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
Ribbo,

Do you think you could back that up with some analysis?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just ask the people on this forum who have gone bust. Rempel and Wazz are good places to start. Also ask Iggy why he was playing 3/6, 5/10 and 10/20 over the last week on Stars.
All of them advocate hyper aggressive play, and all have gone on big tilt benders playing way out of their bankroll safety limit.
This is a hand where you indeed have better equity heads up than 3 ways. But seeing the river card with position is also fine here. After all, if you think someone is going to fold a set of threes to your raise on the turn, then they are just as likely to do it on the river.

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ribbo,

Do you think you could back that up with some analysis?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just ask the people on this forum who have gone bust. Rempel and Wazz are good places to start. Also ask Iggy why he was playing 3/6, 5/10 and 10/20 over the last week on Stars.
All of them advocate hyper aggressive play, and all have gone on big tilt benders playing way out of their bankroll safety limit.
This is a hand where you indeed have better equity heads up than 3 ways. But seeing the river card with position is also fine here. After all, if you think someone is going to fold a set of threes to your raise on the turn, then they are just as likely to do it on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

this isn't exactly a marginal draw. you're ahead of a set of 3's.

[Rob121]

on the turn i call. i like betting the flop here though, makes the hand alot easier to play and gives you control of the hand.

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
on the turn i call. i like betting the flop here though, makes the hand alot easier to play and gives you control of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 'control' of the hand simply by being on the button. Betting does not give you this. If you are behind you don't want to be putting money in the pot simply to 'gain control'. Only bet if you think you are ahead, or you think everyone will fold to your bet.

[Hattifnatt]

I really like a push here if its not scared money for you by any means.

also, I posted a movie (about Rolf Slotboom) in BBV that some of you might fun somewhat funny.

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index....7457fb266d3f608

[Ribbo]

[ QUOTE ]
I really like a push here if its not scared money for you by any means.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your making your opponents situation a lot easier by pushing in here, as they would rather get it in now than have to see a river card and be forced to reevaluate out of position.
Especially since your position is the biggest edge you have.

[RoundTower]

I like the flop check, you can hit some good cards on the turn and you don't really want to be check raised here. Also I think preflop is good, you have a playable hand in position and you presumably expect to play better than them postflop.

I like raising the turn. You may fold out better hands or get called by worse, and although you are in position it won't be particularly easy to play this hand on the river if you just call. Yes you might go on tilt but more importantly, your opponents might. Assuming this is live you probably play way more hands than your opponents and lose big pots on coinflips all the time.

[TxRedMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the fact of the matter is that type of response doesn't aid in figuring out the correct decision to make on the turn, and that's all I'm interested in.

-Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to know that your attitude is one of only taking and never giving. Saves me making any more posts.

[/ QUOTE ]


CTS explained well what my thoughts are regarding this hand preflop, and it extends into metagame, image, and has a lot to do with the flow of the game as well, but none more important than building a pot with a hand on the button in a deep game.


Ribbo, I've never discussed much with you so I'm not sure if your response to me is meant to be rude or just a joke, but what I said that you quoted was neither intended to be rude or directed at you in some sort of superior manner, rather it was an explanation of my thoughts, and those thoughts being that the critical decision in this hand came on the turn, and since I'm comfortable with my PF play we shouldn't discuss it when there's something more important to analyze.



All,


I raised the turn to $1000. The BB called and MP folded, which surprised me b/c MP rarely puts money in on the flop or turn and then folds to a medium sized raise. I sort of second guessed myself at that point, strongly considering the fact that MP could have a hand like KKQJ, but I sill thought his most common holding would be KQJT w/nut hearts, and a small % of the time he'd have a hand like 3345.


My biggest concern was what hand my line looked like. Preflop can be AAxx here for me a lot, especially against a deep limp re-raise when I have the button, and when I check behind on the flop I dont know how most opponents view that, but i'd only check a set on this flop a small % of the time. So what hand does my line look like, and now that I've built a pot, let's play the river.....


So there's about $2600 and change in the middle and the BB has almost $2200 left and I cover. (fwiw I purposely raised an amount on the turn that would leave me the ability to make him call getting either less than 2.5/1 or a much better price if it was checked to me on the river)


River

6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]


I felt like this was a great card for me for several reasons. First, it makes me the third nut, and the first and second nut are unlikely. I think my hand looked like a combo draw on the turn, so AKxx will probably pay off either a small river bet or occasionally pay off a large bet. 33xx will call some type of bet. K6xx and 63xx will call a bet as well, and the case 6 will want to go to showdown too for the right price.


BB checks, how much do you bet here? Fwiw, I was debating whether or not a river shove would look like a bluff, and I also was considering what the weakest hand he calls with if the pot was laying him 3-1. I know some players will fold threes full in this spot if I bet $1000, but they'd call a shove, and it likely depends on the line I took throughout the hand.

If it helps, I haven't gotten out of line, and the only big pot I played was 120 BB stacks I defended my blind w/ 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and we got it in on the turn on a board of 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] against A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and even though I'm a small favorite in this spot I think the table just noticed how I check-raised all-in with no pair against the current nuts who snap called and I got the impression several players thought it was donkish and a terrible beat or whatever, so if the BB doesn't understand equities he probably thinks i'm wreckless and willing to make a move.



-Tex