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#11
10-25-2007, 08:00 PM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
J9s also.
when someone says he's "a little loose" and they're talking about a live player yeah, J9s is totally within range. 
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#12
10-25-2007, 08:07 PM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
[ QUOTE ]
Why can't villain have J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9x? [/ QUOTE ] Straight forward and passive. Obviously interpretations of straight forward differ, but I dont think it is straight forward poker calling 2 bets on the button with J9s or J9o. Slightly loose or LAG, I would definately include this in villains range.
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#13
10-25-2007, 08:13 PM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
It seems somewhat unlikely to me that villain has J9 because he didn't cap the flop and then came alive when the flush hit on the turn. I guess that's not *that* out of the ordinary for a live player, but a little bit certainly.
I'd weight his range much more heavily towards KQ and [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] connectors that have an 8. I'm certain I'd call down that river card, but AA is the only hand I can picture beating against this line from a passive player. Or maybe frisky QxJ[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?
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#14
10-25-2007, 08:15 PM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
That doesn't really matter, he'll wait to pop the turn and then pop any turn regardless of how bad it is.
Welcome to 10-20. Not saying he has J9 here every time but his line is consistent with it.
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#15
10-25-2007, 09:02 PM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
being passive he would probably 4 bet the flop and check the turn being scared of the flush, so I would rule out Jd9x.I think its a good river fold, if he's passive your no good 1 in 10. KQ or a flush.
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#16
10-26-2007, 10:11 AM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
I think the turn decision is actually interesting here, too. When the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] hits, given the flop action, what range do we give our villain, and don't we trail nearly all of it?
My first instinct would be to lead that turn card as well. However, his range seems sufficiently defined on the flop that the prudent option might be check/calling the turn. We have at least 6 outs against all hands but one. We're ahead of QJ. To what other hand do we not want to give a free card? Q9 and 97?
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#17
10-26-2007, 10:37 AM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
for me the most interesting decision here is the turn.
at first glance, i don't like the turn bet. if you didn't have the monster redraw i would agree with it because we can b/f. a high % of the time he's either folding or raising, i think and a free card sure wouldn't hurt us. the biggest drawback is that when a bet goes in(being that he's sort of passive) you are probably in worse shape than when you bet it yourself. if i did bet/call the turn i would check/fold the river as you did.
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#18
10-26-2007, 11:05 AM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
[ QUOTE ]
for me the most interesting decision here is the turn. at first glance, i don't like the turn bet. if you didn't have the monster redraw i would agree with it because we can b/f. a high % of the time he's either folding or raising, i think and a free card sure wouldn't hurt us. the biggest drawback is that when a bet goes in(being that he's sort of passive) you are probably in worse shape than when you bet it yourself. if i did bet/call the turn i would check/fold the river as you did. [/ QUOTE ] if i c/c turn am i c/folding all non Q, non diamond, non J rivers?
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#19
10-26-2007, 11:57 AM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] for me the most interesting decision here is the turn. at first glance, i don't like the turn bet. if you didn't have the monster redraw i would agree with it because we can b/f. a high % of the time he's either folding or raising, i think and a free card sure wouldn't hurt us. the biggest drawback is that when a bet goes in(being that he's sort of passive) you are probably in worse shape than when you bet it yourself. if i did bet/call the turn i would check/fold the river as you did. [/ QUOTE ] if i c/c turn am i c/folding all non Q, non diamond, non J rivers? [/ QUOTE ] against all but the most passive players, we can probably spend two big bets on the turn/river and showdown UI. when you show weakness by checking the turn, you expand the range against alot of typical(even semipassive) players and likely have enough hand to see it to the end.
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#20
10-26-2007, 12:12 PM
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Re: I river trips and see no reason to call
[ QUOTE ]
It seems somewhat unlikely to me that villain has J9 because he didn't cap the flop and then came alive when the flush hit on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Seems to me that villain came alive on the flop, and stayed alive on the turn. And if he's passive I seriously doubt he'd cap anything that wasn't the nuts, let alone a flop with a flush draw out there if he didn't at least have one diamond. At first I was thinking J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] but there's no way he doesn't r/r the turn. A loose passive would call two on the button with J9o I'm sure. But he's also not afraid to raise the flush card on the turn.. which a passive wouldn't usually do without a flush. So what else might he have? I suppose 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is an even more likely holding than J9o, because he's just calling the r/r with his flush and gutter draws on the flop. So his raise on the flop is a bit frisky for a passive, but plausible. Either way, OP's fold is a good one.
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