Chasing draws...

[HollywoodAsh]

Hey, I'd like to get some opinions on post flop play when there's the possibility of a flush draw.

For example, say you're sitting in the BB with something like A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and you get 3 limpers from mid position to the button, the SB calls and you check.

The flop comes: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I would normally bet about the size of the pot to chase out the flush draw by giving them incorrect pot odds, but say the mid position and cut off then call, now the button and SB have correct odds to call on a draw.

Besides overbetting the pot to chase everyone out of the hand I don't see a way around it, and this in my mind would be risky because you're then on your back foot if another heart comes and therefore the implied odds could justify the original call?

So would the best solution be to simply bet around the size of the pot to give at least the next two to act incorrect odds and hope that another heart doesn't come on the turn?

P.s. If this is in the wrong section I apologise!

[raze]

I think the best play is check/fold. This is a reverse-implied odds situation, where your marginal hand is unlikely to improve, and you could be against all sorts of draws PLUS made hands that already have you beat (better Aces, fluke 2-pairs).

Also, you're out of position in a 5-way pot with seemingly loose players. When you pot it and get called by two players, you'll never know if you're ahead or drawing to 0-3 outs; thus, this spot doesn't seem profitable and I wouldn't put any money in on the flop.

[HollywoodAsh]

Ah so that would be a case of overplaying Aces when you have very little, if at all, chances to improve and you could be up against any number of other hands that have you drawing dead on the turn?

[JH1]

Exactly. With that many people in the pot, there is bound to be another Ace without even looking at the flush draw and possible set that won't give up to a pot size bet on the flop. AK and AQ are unlikely because there was no preflop raise, but even then you are probably 35% at best. You are also pretty much announcing "I have an Ace." Now if I had a A7 or 77 I would lead out like you did, because you are certainly going to get callers.

This is your odds against only one other ace calling your bet, nevermind all the other possibilities out there.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

75,240 games 0.005 secs 15,048,000 games/sec

Board: Ah Kh 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.797% 09.32% 25.48% 7009 19172.50 { Ad5c }
Hand 1: 65.203% 39.72% 25.48% 29886 19172.50 { AJs-A2s, AJo-A2o }

[JH1]

On top of that you want to play big pots with big hands and small pots with small hands. Top pair with what's probably going to be no kicker is definately a small hand. Your flop bet is going to grow the pot exponentially. I agree with check-folding the flop. If it gets checked through, I might (probably rarely) put in a bet on a non-heart turn unimproved depending on your opponents. You get a caller there though and you probably still have to give up and check-fold the river.

[HollywoodAsh]

Ok cheers guys, what about the same situation then but you're holding a set or something worthy of staying in the hand and being paid off for?

[Foghatlive]

This is why I hate playing Ace Rags. Even when you hit your flop, you feel as though you're in a precarious situation.

[eMbAh]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok cheers guys, what about the same situation then but you're holding a set or something worthy of staying in the hand and being paid off for?

[/ QUOTE ]

then you definitely want to get money in the pot. A set is a big hand. Big hands = big pots

[Albert Moulton]

Check/fold.

Maybe bet out if the turn is a blank and it was checked through, but don't call a raise.

Basically, you are OOP with a bad hand. Just let TPWK go from the BB in a multi-way limped pot. Even two-pair Aces and fives isn't a hand to stack off with from BB in a multi-way limped pot. It's just not big enough.

[raze]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok cheers guys, what about the same situation then but you're holding a set or something worthy of staying in the hand and being paid off for?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet the pot, and hope someone raises so you can re-raise [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]