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#1
11-18-2007, 08:17 PM
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Second pair and nut flush draw OOP
I'm mostly just interested in how to play this river, but feel free to comment on other streets as well.
I have a little history with the opponent. It started when I raised with AK and he called. Flop was K-K-6 with 2 clubs. I bet, he called. Turn was a 7. I bet again and he folded. A couple hands later I raised and he called. A couple other people called behind him and I gave up on the flop. This was the third time in the span of about 5 to 10 minutes that he called my preflop raise. I sort of had a feeling he was trying to get me back for the AK hand. Of course, this is just a hunch. Maybe he's just a calling station in general. Who knows? I bet about 2/3 of the pot on the flop, hoping he was the type to insta-donk min-raise, in which case I would come right back over the top. When he called I was assuming an ace, straight draw, or flush draw. Admittedly, I didn't feel very confident about my bet on the turn. I felt there was a very good chance that I still had the best hand, but for some reason I was afraid of pot-betting and having him shove. Needless to say, I was not feeling great about my idea of how to play the hand on the turn. The river is my biggest question. If I check, it gives him a chance to bluff, but it's not likely to be a huge bet. If I bet, he is probably not going to fold an ace. He might pay me off with J10 or QJ. In retrospect, I think maybe betting was the appropriate move. Thoughts? Full Tilt Poker, NL Hold'em Tournament, 20/40 Blinds, 9 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter SB: 3,050 BB: 3,260 UTG: 3,485 Hero (UTG+1): 3,520 UTG+2: 4,560 MP1: 2,845 MP2: 2,105 CO: 6,200 BTN: 3,960 Pre-Flop: (60) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG+1) UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to 125</font>, 2 folds, MP2 calls 125, 4 folds Flop: (310) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets 200</font>, MP2 calls 200 Turn: (710) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players) <font color="red">Hero bets 400</font>, MP2 calls 400 River: (1,510) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players) Hero checks, <font color="red">MP2 bets 600</font>, Hero calls 600 Results: 2,710 Pot 
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#2
11-18-2007, 08:58 PM
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Re: Second pair and nut flush draw OOP
raise less pre flop if youre even going to raise this.
bet more of the flop because your hand is worth a lot but likely to be behind an A that calls/raises your bet. turn is a check although you say you had a read so its not horrible. river is a check. dont bet this river. he's not folding any A's you've already labeled him a station.
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#4
11-19-2007, 01:48 AM
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Re: Second pair and nut flush draw OOP
[ QUOTE ]
raise less pre flop if youre even going to raise this. [/ QUOTE ] lol 3x the BB is too much eh? Betting the turn is fine because this guy is dying to make a stand and you're getting paid if you improve on the river. It would be super ghey to get min raised but given read I think it's fine. Your read is obv the key to what the optimal river decision is but c/c feels dirty.
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#5
11-19-2007, 02:08 AM
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Re: Second pair and nut flush draw OOP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] raise less pre flop if youre even going to raise this. [/ QUOTE ] lol 3x the BB is too much eh? Betting the turn is fine because this guy is dying to make a stand and you're getting paid if you improve on the river. It would be super ghey to get min raised but given read I think it's fine. Your read is obv the key to what the optimal river decision is but c/c feels dirty. [/ QUOTE ] actually, i would bet that a lot of the board would agree with me that 3x utg+1 with KJ is too much.
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#6
11-19-2007, 03:12 AM
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Re: Second pair and nut flush draw OOP
[ QUOTE ]
actually, i would bet that a lot of the board would agree with me that 3x utg+1 with KJ is too much. [/ QUOTE ] Does a lot of the board advocate min-raising? LOL. If you'd rather not open with KJs in early position that's fine. However, I'm not going to raise it to 90 or something like that.
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#8
11-19-2007, 08:31 AM
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Re: Second pair and nut flush draw OOP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] actually, i would bet that a lot of the board would agree with me that 3x utg+1 with KJ is too much. [/ QUOTE ] Does a lot of the board advocate min-raising? LOL. If you'd rather not open with KJs in early position that's fine. However, I'm not going to raise it to 90 or something like that. [/ QUOTE ] You are both wrong, the correct answer is shove preflop... villain will fold his A9o and hero wins the pot [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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#9
11-19-2007, 08:45 AM
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Re: Second pair and nut flush draw OOP
tbh I haven't played many tournaments but from what I've read the difference btw 2.5 an 3 bb raises doesn't matter much in these situations. Saving bets at this level is not as important than when you get to the 400bb + levels. Also at lower levels your reverse implied odds are lower as are your commitment levels as it represents a smaller %age of your stack. I'm sure that everyone here knows that and I'm prob stating the obvious.
As for the play, given your read then the flop turn play is ok, if he is calling light then i'd bet the turn as well. But i'm sure there is an argument to pot control as well, i find that i often jam pots against people who hold grudges or are looking for 'revenge' only with strong hands because they may just be trapping. So maybe a check here is good too.
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