The ol' donk min-bet

[Hollywade]

<font color="black"> Full Tilt $10+1 Midnight Madness
4th blind level; within the first 40 minutes of play

Full Tilt Poker, NL Hold'em Tournament, Midnight Madness!, 30/60 Blinds, 9 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

CO: 2,385
BTN: 2,990
SB: 1,645
BB: 2,635
UTG: 1,155
UTG+1: 1,820
UTG+2: 1,570
MP1: 1,075
Hero (MP2): 2,975

Pre-Flop: (90) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP2)
4 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to 175</font>, 3 folds, BB calls 115

Flop: (380) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 175</font>, BB calls 175

Turn: (730) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets 375</font>, BB calls 375

River: (1,480) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets 60</font>, Hero calls 60

Results: 1,600 Pot
BB showed J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Eights) and WON 1,600 (+815 NET)
Hero mucked K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Eights) and LOST (-785 NET)

What the hell is up with this hilarious min bet on the river? I cannot believe how often I see it. What's the point of betting 60 into a pot of roughly 1500?

It actually took me a minute to think about it. First of all, I'm assuming nobody is stupid enough to do that as a stone cold bluff such as a missed heart draw or 10-9. Therefore, I'll assume he at least has something.

If he made his draw with something like 6-5, wouldn't he bet a little more than 60? I mean, if you're going to call those bets on the flop and turn trying to make a hand, don't you want some value when you finally do get there? The same logic applies to hands like 77 or 8x. If I have that big of a hand that I'm just check-calling to the river with, I'm going to actually lead out with a real bet on the river, not a painfully donkish min bet. This reasoning led me to question whether he could actually have a very strong hand.

My conclusion was that he probably had Ax. It just seemed like he had a little something but didn't want to get a lot of money in the pot on the river. For this reason, I actually considered putting in a decent raise. Finally, I just decided he wasn't going to call a raise with just an ace. I just called.

My question is, would you guys consider raising in this situation?

Also, I know I bet less than what would normally be advised on the flop. I was aware of it at the time and did it intentionally to encourage ace-rag to hang around. Please just concentrate on the river. That's where my question lies. Thanks. </font> <font color="black"> </font>

[Hollywade]

P.S. Sorry about the red font. My whole post was screwed up and I didn't know how to fix it. It left out all the amounts of each bet which I tried to fix and then all the text was red. No clue...

[yNnOs]

Can't see stack sizes. Use this HH converter please; FTR's doesn't work for FTP tournies.
http://www.leggopoker.com/hh/

[Hollywade]

Oh ok sorry, I guess I've only posted for cash games before. I'll try to fix it.

[Hollywade]

It's fixed. Thanks ynnos.

[yNnOs]

Ok, on the river I'm just calling. A lot of players are just horrible at value betting, and obv you aren't folding two pair getting like 25:1.

I would've played it like this though. Raise pre to 180, 240-300 on the flop. If he's still around, I don't know how to put him on an 8 and I prob bet around 500 on the turn. River, call his horrendous value bet.

[Pokerfarian]

I'd be very tempted to go for thin value on the river, hard to say what I'd actually do, being a bit skewed by results...not posting them gives better discussion.
I know you said don't comment on flop but your reasoning is kind've off - I don't think Ax ever folds to any normal sized bet on this flop.

[quirkasaurus]

I'll bet he meant to hit 600, and mistyped.
Happens to me occasionally...

[ssnyc]

river is fine...I know you think you have a reason but bet more on flop...A rag will pay it anyway and you will charge 9 10...there is no way you raise that river...wayyyy too much that punishes you

[Moemar]

You know...that actually seems like a reasonable explanation, but I think he is just bad, and hit bet.