three barrels vs. raptor - Page 2

jfish · #11 10-13-2007, 05:46 PM

id fold it against everybody who is decent really.

BobboFitos · #12 10-13-2007, 05:46 PM

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id probably check fold the flop...

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i also fold pf. see how helpful i am?

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ya i agree tbh though raptor is in the minority of ppl id fold it vs

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id never fold it pf, def. not. on the flop tho it's a wasted cbet

jfish · #13 10-13-2007, 05:55 PM

why never fold pf? it seems like you could change your opening range to something that was more optimal than one that included Axo.

BobboFitos · #14 10-13-2007, 06:11 PM

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why never fold pf? it seems like you could change your opening range to something that was more optimal than one that included Axo.

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I don't follow; either A4o will show a profit when folded to us sb vs bb or it wont. I think it will. If others feel differently, they should fold.

Making our hand range optimal for that spot (not sure what this means) isn't a primary concern?

king_of_drafts · #15 10-13-2007, 06:14 PM

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why never fold pf? it seems like you could change your opening range to something that was more optimal than one that included Axo.

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I don't follow; either A4o will show a profit when folded to us sb vs bb or it wont. I think it will. If others feel differently, they should fold.

Making our hand range optimal for that spot (not sure what this means) isn't a primary concern?

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there are some players it won't show a profit against and some it will

EmpireMaker2 · #16 10-13-2007, 06:23 PM

I agree with Jfish this is a fold vs tricky players almost always preflop

BobboFitos · #17 10-13-2007, 06:23 PM

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there are some players it won't show a profit against and some it will

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agree with that. in a vacuum tho most players it should be profitable.

jfish · #18 10-13-2007, 06:25 PM

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why never fold pf? it seems like you could change your opening range to something that was more optimal than one that included Axo.

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I don't follow; either A4o will show a profit when folded to us sb vs bb or it wont. I think it will. If others feel differently, they should fold.

Making our hand range optimal for that spot (not sure what this means) isn't a primary concern?

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well ok, you can open a x% of hands vs a good player. as you start opening more than x, you will encounter more resistance, and opening as wide will start to become suboptimal - right?

for example, when you say that Axo shows a profit, i feel that ATC shows the same profit because you make money when he folds pf or after a cbet really.

so why not try to optimize your range? there are really no advantages to opening A4o vs a tough player oop. it can make no big hands, when you do flop anything, its very obvious. i think that opening 93s is better than A4o, and i would much rather raise the former in this spot.

jfish · #19 10-13-2007, 06:29 PM

sorry for derailing this.

BobboFitos · #20 10-13-2007, 06:42 PM

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why never fold pf? it seems like you could change your opening range to something that was more optimal than one that included Axo.

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I don't follow; either A4o will show a profit when folded to us sb vs bb or it wont. I think it will. If others feel differently, they should fold.

Making our hand range optimal for that spot (not sure what this means) isn't a primary concern?

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well ok, you can open a x% of hands vs a good player. as you start opening more than x, you will encounter more resistance, and opening as wide will start to become suboptimal - right?

for example, when you say that Axo shows a profit, i feel that ATC shows the same profit because you make money when he folds pf or after a cbet really.

so why not try to optimize your range? there are really no advantages to opening A4o vs a tough player oop. it can make no big hands, when you do flop anything, its very obvious. i think that opening 93s is better than A4o, and i would much rather raise the former in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]i see what you're saying. going to leave it with:
if opening ATC is profitable, you should do so. a good player will adjust, but not quickly enough. for the context of the 'should i open it bubble,' vs an unknown, the answer should be yes.

i see what you mean by 93s v a4o, but i dont agree. even though your hand is both obvious and does not make nut hands, that does not mean your hand has no value. (or a lower value then a hand which technically is hidden and can make "bigger" hands since it's suited)