AJs

milesdyson · #1 08-30-2007, 10:03 PM

UTG is 27/17. all i know is he 3-bet my HJ raise with ATo in the CO today. this one happened 3 orbits before the 2nd hand. here it is:

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.6SB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3.8BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5.8BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO calls.

Results:
Final pot: 9.8BB
Hero Shows Jd Ah
(he had AT)

i don't really know what i think about this hand, though, or how it plays into the next one. anyway, here it is.

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG raises, 3 folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6SB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, do i bluff here?

SB here is really loose preflop and somewhat erratic postflop, but i am pretty sure he doesn't have a flush now that he checked. i think his most likely hand is a clubless pure bluff or 9x, which i doubt calls the river.

anyway do i try to bluff here to push utg off clubless AK-AJ? i really don't see him checking turn behind w/ AcK or AKc, and to a lesser extent AQc or AJc, although i guess he could have the lower two based on turn check.

shat4brains · #2 08-30-2007, 10:10 PM

i think the 1st hand is standard i would have played it the same way

on hand 2 i deff wouldnt bet river honestly u have a small amount of showdown value and there are a lot of hands that call here like any club, some people will call AQ and AK here too so ur not really going to get a better hand to fold that much i think so its pointless to bet.

Heisenb3rg · #3 08-30-2007, 10:50 PM

dont bet [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

this is online.. people dont respect bets and think through the hand thoruhgly like you might..
I dont see how he could check behind on the turn unless he had a club in his hand for one.
If hes dumb enough to give a free card without one, he probabily wants to "get to a showdown" and wont fold to the river bet.

The chance of SB having a club (or 2pair) is low, but certainly non zero...

Youd need a really really strong read on his play to bet this here other than just the logic of the hand.. (if that made sense).
Btw if this was me in his spot the only hand I have here is Ax with a club...

It's good you are thinking about this as a possibility though.. It shows good poker thinking and proper use of hand reading. I just think your possibly underestimating how likely he has a club, how likely he'll fold AK/AQ/AJ and how likely sb has a hand worse than yours that will call.

Leader · #4 08-30-2007, 11:02 PM

Can we b/3b the river in hand one? Does he have AK/AQ/AT enough? Though to say. Does he bet TT/99 here? Probably not. I think I'd rather bet.

I don't really have any salient thoughts on the second hand. I would check obviously, but I won't tell you betting is clearly wrong.

Heisenb3rg · #5 08-30-2007, 11:06 PM

I like the way myles played hand 1.

I think once he checks the flop, his hand is very heavily weighted towards Ax and not TT/99.. From my experience at least.
Myles bet the turn clearly planning to 3-bet (obv the right play) but his opponent just called.

Now on the river, a thinking opponent would be surprised that you are not afraid of the ace and are betting into him twice so very well may just call AQ/AT (maybe even AK).. But he will certainly bet and pay off the c/r.

It's close but I c/r as well.
If you put his range as TT/99 or Ax then I agree with you.. But I would discount those so much..

milesdyson · #6 08-30-2007, 11:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Can we b/3b the river in hand one? Does he have AK/AQ/AT enough? Though to say. Does he bet TT/99 here? Probably not. I think I'd rather bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
highly doubt he checks behind the flop with an underpair on J84 vs me. his range is mostly AT/AK/AQ or KQ with a club. he isn't going to call my river bet with KQ, and i think checkraising against the other hands is better than betting. i don't think he raises those hands very often on the river.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #7 08-30-2007, 11:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can we b/3b the river in hand one? Does he have AK/AQ/AT enough? Though to say. Does he bet TT/99 here? Probably not. I think I'd rather bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
highly doubt he checks behind the flop with an underpair on J84 vs me. his range is mostly AT/AK/AQ or KQ with a club. he isn't going to call my river bet with KQ, and i think checkraising against the other hands is better than betting. i don't think he raises those hands very often on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you played hand one expertly, although I initially thought check/raising the turn is fine too, but now that I think about it, your line has to be the optimal line here IMO, even better than check/raising the turn and heres why.

I agree with you that the villain's most likely hand is Ax given his preflop-flop line. So it should be clear that check/raising the turn or river will work here, but I like betting the turn better than check/raising right away cuz its like were fishin for a 3bet, and once the villain doesnt take the bait it's time to get that obligatory check/raise in on the river. Check/raising the turn guarantees us 3BBs every time from Ax. Betting the turn with the intention of check/raising the river if the villain just calls the turn nets us atleast 3BB's every time too, but we also have a chance to get 4BB's in when the villain pops the turn. So VNH IMO.

About hand 2: Im with leader. I would check, but I'm agnostic on everything at this point. Except I think you shouldve 3bet preflop.

milesdyson · #8 08-31-2007, 04:12 PM

hand 2 i did not 3-bet preflop because i love checkraising protected pots. i do have enough equity to 3-bet.

anyway i bet the river and they both folded. UTG thought for like 5 seconds before folding. maybe i had the best hand though.

TheHip41 · #9 08-31-2007, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 2 i did not 3-bet preflop because i love checkraising protected pots. i do have enough equity to 3-bet.

anyway i bet the river and they both folded. UTG thought for like 5 seconds before folding. maybe i had the best hand though.

[/ QUOTE ]

the river in hand 1 is giving me wood

and lol at the tag for calling your river c/r with AT

I love when a good player knows what you have, and checks to you, then does a "give me all your money c/r", and they call anyway.