when?

[yourface]

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The answer to your original question is that you should often bet when you don't expect your opponent to fold any better hands and you expect to lose more than half the time. This occurs when you are OOP whenever the pot is big enough and your hand is good often enough that, if you check the river, it will be more profitable to call than to fold, but the villain will check behind most of the hands you beat.

For example, there are 8 BB in the pot on the river. The villain in the hand will not call a bet with a busted draw and will not bluff a busted draw. His range of hands is such that 70% of his made hands beat your hand and 30% lose to your hand. If you check to him, he will value bet his top 80% of his made hands. Note that you are still good 1-in-8 times when he does bet, so check/calling is better than check/folding. However, if you bet out on the river, he will call with all made hands and raise only the top 10%. (Obviously, you fold if raised, but even if you do call the raise, bet/calling is still better than check/calling or check/folding!)

This type of situation comes up fairly often. It becomes dicier if you feel your opponent might bluff (or mistakenly value raise worse hands) often enough that you have to call the river (or if you should fold the river but are likely to call for psychological reasons).

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ignore my post, this is what I was trying to say [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Oink]

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The answer to your original question is that you should often bet when you don't expect your opponent to fold any better hands and you expect to lose more than half the time. This occurs when you are OOP whenever the pot is big enough and your hand is good often enough that, if you check the river, it will be more profitable to call than to fold, but the villain will check behind most of the hands you beat.

For example, there are 8 BB in the pot on the river. The villain in the hand will not call a bet with a busted draw and will not bluff a busted draw. His range of hands is such that 70% of his made hands beat your hand and 30% lose to your hand. If you check to him, he will value bet his top 80% of his made hands. Note that you are still good 1-in-8 times when he does bet, so check/calling is better than check/folding. However, if you bet out on the river, he will call with all made hands and raise only the top 10%. (Obviously, you fold if raised, but even if you do call the raise, bet/calling is still better than check/calling or check/folding!)

This type of situation comes up fairly often. It becomes dicier if you feel your opponent might bluff (or mistakenly value raise worse hands) often enough that you have to call the river (or if you should fold the river but are likely to call for psychological reasons).

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ignore my post, this is what I was trying to say [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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I feel pwned

nh sir!

[DavidC]

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When the board is such that you will clearly chop if your opponent calls (4444A or AKQJTr)?

If that's not the answer I don't really understand the question and feel like I'm about to look dumb.

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sorry i didn't mean that situation, even though that is precisely the actual answer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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Before I make gay bets like these (that ~always get called) I very very carefully look at hte pot size and rake structure.

[vmacosta]

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The answer to your original question is that you should often bet when you don't expect your opponent to fold any better hands and you expect to lose more than half the time. This occurs when you are OOP whenever the pot is big enough and your hand is good often enough that, if you check the river, it will be more profitable to call than to fold, but the villain will check behind most of the hands you beat.

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I know I promised to quit piling garbage into this thread, but I wanted to add something to this well-written post. The bet you are speaking of does not actually require that you be forced to call a bet if you check. Say if you check your opponent will bluff 10% in a 5BB pot. You will be best off folding. However, if your opponent has something better than you less than 10% of the time and he never raises a worse hand, then bet/folding is better than c/f'ig even if he will NEVER call with a worse hand.

I guess that's the same as a blocking bet.