Stop Losses and Stop Wins in Maniac Filled LHE

[ne14dirt]

I’m curious about what thoughts are out there on stop losses and stop wins in maniac fill low stakes LHE games. I think that the consensus is to stop when you are tilting, to tired or start playing badly, i.e. have lost an edge and to continue playing regardless of how previous hands have went if you feel you have a decisive edge and will continue to have that edge.

I wonder if this changes when you are up say 60-100bb or down 40-100bb and have been getting your money in good consistently against many opponents. Say 100% of the players see the flop 6 to 8 see the turn and 4 to 5 go to showdown. The kind of players at this table obviously will stay in with any draw and some don’t even know the hand rankings. These players also enjoy raising and re-raising with bottom pair and any one over card.

Is it always correct to stay when one has an edge even facing significant losses that are within the scope of your bankroll? Is it always incorrect to implement any kind of stop loss or stop win in this sort of game?

Please discuss.

[reutel]

You shouldn't stop because of losses, if your bankroll is not in danger, but then you shouldn't play at all. If you don't have an edge due to tilt/tiredness you shouldn't play as well. Stay in this game, as long as you have an edge and see the money flowing towards you

[James.]

as long as your are making profitable plays, you should continue regardless of the results.

there are very few situations(mostly bankroll-related) that make a stop loss/gain acceptable in my mind. this doesn't mean that it's correct. if, for instance, you must have x number of dollars for whatever and you hit x number of dollars, stopping is acceptable(in my mind).

if you are underrolled or can only afford to lose x amount of dollars then stopping after a certain loss is acceptable(in my mind). note theoretically these are not the highest EV decisions, but situationally they might keep you playing, fulfill a requirement, or some other aspect that makes it less horrible(in my mind). of course the right answer is to play properly rolled so you can make the highest EV decisions, but i'm just sayin'.

[Xhad]

In addition to what's been said, stop wins are even worse because they make you most likely to quit when the games are at their best.

[Harv72b]

I don't like stop wins on principle. If you're winning & have a clue about why, then it's likely because you have a significant edge in the game. Leaving the game because of your win should only be an option if the win affects your own play to the point where you no longer have that edge.

As far as top losses go, I'll admit that there are times I employ this during sessions. It's a combination of different reasons, first & foremost being that I recognize my own proclivity towards tilting (subtly or otherwise) when I've taken a string of bad beats or run into a lot of hand over hands, and this obviously affects any edge that I have/had in the game. Also, when you've lost a good chunk of money in a game, it often does affect the way your opponents play against you--you tend to lose any amount of folding equity you might have had, which at least for me plays an important role in my postflop game. So if I've dropped a buy-in (20 BBs) during a table session, then unless the table is outrageously good I will end that table session fairly often; of course this is online, and in those cases I've usually got another table or 3 going.

The shortest, and easiest, answer to this question is simply that if your win or loss is going to change the way you play the game, and especially if it will change it to the point where you no longer have an edge, you should stop playing.

[n.s.]

Stop wins are pretty silly. The only time I think it's acceptable is when you are close to finishing your session anyways and you reach a nice big round number that makes you happy, so you are willing to sacrifice a little bit of EV in order to have a 100% chance of walking away feeling good. This only applies to recreational players, though, since a pro should be relatively immune to emotional swings from a single session.

I think that stop losses are a good idea, though, but everyone's limit is going to be different. Even the most seasoned pro is going to have a hard time playing his best when he's down like 150+ BB in a single session. Being down a ton means that there is a greater than usual chance that the game is tougher than you thought it was, a greater chance that you are playing on tilt, and a greater chance that you won't be able to accurately evaluate the first two. Sticking to a hard stop-loss will also avoid nights where you cross Caro's "threshold of pain" and just spiral out of control until you've blown through your whole bankroll.

For me, a good stop-loss is about 50-60 BB, but this is something that everyone needs to find for themselves.