25 NL overpair, probably misplayed on multiple streets

[Disconnected]

I've played < 1000 hands of NL so far, so this may be really retarded. Not enough hands on anyone for significant stats, but the original preflop raiser has already folded a couple times when reraised (once by me, once by someone else), but was pretty wild when he had the lead. A few hands prior to this one, he bet/3-bet TPTK big. Button hadn't gotten too involved before this, over ~30 hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($36.30)
MP ($27.05)
Hero ($32.55)
Button ($31.90)
SB ($25.20)
BB ($13.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $1, Button calls $1, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($4.10) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $4</font>, Button calls $4, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: ($12.10) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $5.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $21.4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $26.9</font>, Hero calls $5.50.

River: ($65.90) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $65.90

With a LHE background, I never cold call preflop right after a raiser, and it's probably a poor play here. My thinking was that I could trap the preflop raiser for a lot more by just calling here. I expected button to fold as usual, and even when it got to be a 4-way pot, I wasn't too worried. When the preflop raiser just checked the flop, I figured a PSB with a two flush out there is fine. My real question is on the turn, if I was just a total donkey with that play, sans reads. To me, the flat call on the flop could be a flush draw, a PP, a 9, or a 4, and I figured that I'd let him bluff everything besides the 4 either on the turn or the river. I figured I was dead when he 3-bet me all in, but by then the pot odds made it immaterial.

How many places, and how badly is my thinking flawed? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[jk1986]

Raise pre, even if you think he will fold, its very important that you raise so that you don't let everyone in behind you cheap. Trapping with on overpair pre in a possibly multi way pot is an terrible line to take. Another reason for raising is in making sure you have the button.

Look at it this way, you've got yourself all in on the turn with an unimproved over pair without really knowing what your up against. Not ideal!

[kitaristi0]

Reraise preflop. Bad players call with so many worse hands that just smoothcalling for deception and to 'extract more postflop' is leaving a lot of value on the table IMO.

I bet the turn to charge a flush draw and get value from mid-PPs and 9x hands that call anyway but may check behind if you check. If you do check raise just shove instead of leaving yourself $5 behind. If he'll call $20 he'll call a shove too. Once he 3-bets you you may be behind but folding for just $5 more is obviously stupid.

[Esmerelda]

Raise to 3 or 4 preflop. You can build a bigger pot and possbly get it all in on the flop this way. Also you will have a better feel for what your villain or villains are holding.

As played I do the same postflop.

[Gelford]

Well it is not optimal .... pf is screaming for a reraise, if you are scared of giving you hand away, then reraise with other than just AA, KK and AK, try it out

And then it is a way behind way ahead situation ... so basically you want to go bet flop .. half pot turn (pot control'ish) and let river be decided by your reads by then. Check or block.

Or just call turn .. and again depending on feel and read check or block river.


If you insist on going broke with KK type of hands, you need to pump it up preflop to start with, so that at least you are looking forward to a juicy pot to fight over.

[Bonesy]

PF is clearly bad as the 1st responder mentioned. Flop is fine. Why c/r the turn though? This is practically turning your hand into a bluff. Just bet $9 or so and go from there.

[Disconnected]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I figured the preflop play was pretty bad, especially against a bunch of unknowns. I see there was a much better way to play the turn that could have gotten good value when I was ahead, and (hopefully) let me get away less expensively when behind. Thanks again.