Sunday mill: avg stack to busto in 3 hands, too aggressive?

roamer590 · #1 10-23-2006, 11:12 AM

How to donk out from sunday mill in 3 hands

There is about 1400 people left with 900 paid.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2400 (8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB (t24450)
BB (t21120)
UTG (t11020)
UTG+1 (t27400)
MP1 (t42450)
MP2 (t76728)
Hero (t64190)
Button (t14240)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises to t7200, 2 folds, BB raises to t21000, Hero calls t13800.
Final Pot: t42720 Result in white: I lose vs AJo

3 hands later:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2400 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP3 (t22890)
CO (t42720)
Button (t7060)
SB (t29320)
BB (t27120)
UTG (t42090)
UTG+1 (t76368)
Hero (t47510)
MP2 (t13880)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t7200, Hero raises to t47390, 4 folds, SB calls t28000 (All-In), 1 fold, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: t83430 Result in white: (SB wakes up with AA and I lose) 

Very next hand after this:
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t2400 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP1 (t22650)
MP2 (t42480)
MP3 (t6820)
CO (t68960)
Button (t23280)
SB (t39450)
BB (t73608)
Hero (t18070)
UTG+1 (t13640)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t17950, UTG+1 calls t13520 (All-In), 7 folds.

Final Pot: t32430 Result in white: (I lose against another shortstack w/ AT) 

-------------------------------------------------------------

I know I donked down here - I am thinking I should have made a smaller raise w/ A9 then folding to a reraise. I'm also thinking pushing 88 from such early position was a bit bold.

Please let me know how bad I am.

FortunaMaximus · #2 10-23-2006, 11:26 AM

No. Just keep reading your post. You've got half the answer.

betgo · #3 10-23-2006, 11:28 AM

Hand 1 is fine. Hand 3 is only play.

Hand 2 is questionable. 2nd position raised and you are in 3rd position. Too dangerous that original raiser or someone else will call and have you dominated. If mid position raised, then OK to push with 88 from button or blinds as a semibluff.

Sam T. · #4 10-23-2006, 11:58 AM

Hands like #1 always put me in a bind. My thinking is that in situations like these, chances are really, really good that you are drawing to three outs. I guess some players will do this with KQ, and an underpair is possible of course, but more often you are dominated.

No point, I guess, just that I hate this situation, and probably fold.

Nez477 · #5 10-23-2006, 12:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is fine. Hand 3 is only play.

Hand 2 is questionable. 2nd position raised and you are in 3rd position. Too dangerous that original raiser or someone else will call and have you dominated. If mid position raised, then OK to push with 88 from button or blinds as a semibluff.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I'd probably fold 88 in hand 2, although it's close.

bluesbassman · #6 10-23-2006, 01:20 PM

I'm going to post my analysis not because I'm an expert, but rather so that someone else can critique or refute my thinking.

Hand 1: Notice all 3 stacks behind are less than or = 10BBs. (SB is close enough.) Therefore, I'm (usually) going to make one of two plays with a good but non-monster starting hand: Either open shove, or make a standard raise and fold to a push. If you are willing call about 10 BBs, you might as well maximize fold equity and open push. I would make the play you made only if at least one of the stacks behind were deeper and I wouldn't want to risk > 10BBs with an open push.

Hand 2: I think you overplayed 88 in that spot. I actually like a call and go from there. If someone pushes behind you'll have a decision to make based on reads and stack sizes. If you see a flop there are a couple of ways you can win the pot.

Hand 3: Only alternative is to fold, and I think you are desperate enough to push that hand.

FortunaMaximus · #7 10-23-2006, 01:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: I think you overplayed 88 in that spot. I actually like a call and go from there. If someone pushes behind you'll have a decision to make based on reads and stack sizes. If you see a flop there are a couple of ways you can win the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

He isn't getting odds without a later call. What are the other ways?

bluesbassman · #8 10-23-2006, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: I think you overplayed 88 in that spot. I actually like a call and go from there. If someone pushes behind you'll have a decision to make based on reads and stack sizes. If you see a flop there are a couple of ways you can win the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

He isn't getting odds without a later call. What are the other ways?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Hit a set and value bet. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

2. Bet/raise a "favorable" flop, such as those containing only one overcard no bigger than a J, etc. In fact, I might push those types of flops. If I'm against 99-AA, then I'm going broke but am no worse off than if I had pushed PF. If I'm against hands like AK-AQ, KQs, then the villain has a really tough call and I have good fold equity.

FortunaMaximus · #9 10-23-2006, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
2. Bet/raise a "favorable" flop, such as those containing only one overcard no bigger than a J, etc. In fact, I might push those types of flops. If I'm against 99-AA, then I'm going broke but am no worse off than if I had pushed PF. If I'm against hands like AK-AQ, KQs, then the villain has a really tough call and I have good fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You'd rather v-bet those hands and take down a smaller pot with KQs+, AQo+ rather than race it?

bluesbassman · #10 10-23-2006, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2. Bet/raise a "favorable" flop, such as those containing only one overcard no bigger than a J, etc. In fact, I might push those types of flops. If I'm against 99-AA, then I'm going broke but am no worse off than if I had pushed PF. If I'm against hands like AK-AQ, KQs, then the villain has a really tough call and I have good fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? You'd rather v-bet those hands and take down a smaller pot with KQs+, AQo+ rather than race it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your point, but the problem with that is pushing about 20BBs from MP. I can still get away from the hand with a viable stack by calling if a stack behind pushes and the original raiser calls. All things considered (my hand, 20BBs, MP) pushing PF seems like a bad risk/reward ratio.

Again, I may be wrong, but that is my thinking...

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