NLTRN - $20 reg - river check

[bbbushu]

villain has been fairly aggressive but i don't think s/he's a maniac or anything, thoughts on preflop, flop and turn are welcome but those streets seemed standard to me.

Full Tilt Poker Game #4302933145: $20 + $1 Heads Up Sit & Go (32640900), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:21:59 ET - 2007/11/26
Seat 1: SoFreshSoKlean (1,420)
Seat 2: <font color="blue">morningpoker</font> (1,580)
SoFreshSoKlean posts the small blind of 15
<font color="blue">morningpoker</font> posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to <font color="blue">morningpoker</font> [T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
SoFreshSoKlean calls 15
<font color="blue">morningpoker</font> raises to 120
SoFreshSoKlean calls 90
*** FLOP *** [T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]
<font color="blue">morningpoker</font> bets 160
SoFreshSoKlean calls 160
*** TURN *** [T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] [5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
<font color="blue">morningpoker</font> has 15 seconds left to act
<font color="blue">morningpoker</font> bets 400
SoFreshSoKlean calls 400
*** RIVER *** [T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] [Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
<font color="blue">morningpoker</font> has 15 seconds left to act
<font color="blue">morningpoker</font> checks

you guys like?

holla
martin

[People_Mover]

i'd rather minbet than check [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[sonneti]

I think if you bet big on the river you are getting called. What hand range is calling 400 on the turn and not calling a non spade river?

I don't want to give up value by letting weaker hands check behind, also the only way a river check will be profitable is if the villan donk bluffs his chips in on a wiffed spade draw. Which given the action before and your read I don't think is very likely.

[bbbushu]

sonneti,

i generally agree with you but i didn't think there were many hands villain could have that were "calling hands" in their eyes - Tx and 5x woulda raised earlier, the Q is a blank, pocket pairs with a spade may call i guess but i think a lot of villain's range is bare spades and 3x which wont call but might bluff.

i dunno, tho, which is why i posted it

[daveT]

After calling two nearly pot-sized bets, I can't see what hand villain can reasonably lay down.

[skillgambler]

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x ?

[daveT]

on A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think s/he's a maniac or anything,

[/ QUOTE ]

Best of both worlds: bet small.

[skillgambler]

[ QUOTE ]
on A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] x

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think s/he's a maniac or anything,

[/ QUOTE ]

Best of both worlds: bet small.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't have to be a maniac to make some seemingly un-reasonable calls. i could see villain showing up w/ a FD here a good percentage of time, maybe w/ some pair, maybe KsT or As5/3.

Maybe villain was floating the flop and turned trips, so he decided to let u keep betting instead of bluff-raising you.

i think the check is pretty good, because he's gotta show up a lot of times with a hand that might look good to him (such as 5x, maybe KT/QT, flush obv). Also, he might try to bluff you out this pot fairly often since your line looks a lot like a missed draw.

[theordinaryboy]

I like the check, i think it is likely that he was drawing so if u bet he folds, if u check he may try to bluff you. However, i think this is player dependent. Against tight players i would just bet the river as tight players more likely have made hands with the action so far, against players who have shown to bluff or float checking the river could result in you winning the game as they bluff shove.

I check the river a lot if i feel villain is on a draw and it works pretty well, even if they check most of the time they weren't calling a bet anyway.

The other possibility is to bet small say 1/4 pot like some others said. This could still result in a bluff raise (altho very rarely) as they view your small bet as weak, plus you get some calls from weaker hands that would fold to bigger bets or check behind if you check.

[Kalledrengen]

I agree with most of what Theordinaryboy says.
Very player dependant and I think checking OR betting small, inducing a bluff or thin call when you are against loose / aggresive / bluffy players is certainly the correct play but against a tight player you should definitely bet out here as you can not expect them to try a bluff.

Villains, in my opinions, most likely holdings would be
1. Tx, (IE 7sT)
2. 5
3. Busted FD

Since villain limped and is described as fairly aggresive I don't think we can expect to see him having a pair of T with a kicker he would feel comfortable valuebetting on this river, so checking behind is losing value against this hand I think. Betting small will get a call for sure. Shoving/betting big might get a call because the river was a none-spade, but might also get a fold.
If he has a 5 you will be getting full value pretty much no matter what you do
If he has a busted FD, he will not call a shove/big bet obviously. He MIGHT, much depending on how bluffy he is (and what he thinks YOUR image is), then he might try a bluff if you check or if you bet small, who knows.

So against a standard fairly aggresive person I think I would make a small/medium valuebet here hoping to get called by a T, getting raised by a 5, and perhaps getting shoved on with a busted FD.