Middle set on the button vs. 2 opponents

Hollywade · #1 11-26-2007, 03:37 AM

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($53)
Hero ($126.90)
SB ($49.50)
BB ($50)
UTG ($53.10)
MP ($102.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.75, SB calls $1.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($5.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $3.5, MP raises to $11.5, Hero raises to $45

Do you guys ever consider just flat calling on this flop. I'm assuming the preflop raiser has AA or AK based on the way he's playing this flop. However, I don't really know where the small blind is at. I'd hate to go three people to the turn and see a club come off.

Thoughts?

Delzek15 · #2 11-26-2007, 03:42 AM

I would of definitely 3 bet him PF. Playing it how you did I would also raise the flop but not to 45 probably something like 33~ and see what happens. This puts the sb almost all in and it is very unlikely that the MP has two clubs. When/if he calls your flop 3bet then you can shove the turn.

Clover78 · #3 11-26-2007, 10:41 AM

Slightly smaller raise on the flop from me also, with the K club out there in my mind we can eliminate the most obvious flush draw and bet for value against TPTK or the bullets. Based on a raise to around 35 I am shoving any turn.

I think you played it well, never flat call the flop imho, maybe bet a bit less but you can't be faulted.

matrix · #4 11-26-2007, 10:57 AM

3bet preflop for value. We are deep vs MP - our hand is way ahead of his range and we want to punch up the preflop pot so that we have the opportunity to win a BIG pot the times we flop a top hand. If we flat call preflop and the flop is HU we have a potsize on teh flop of $4 with 96 behind and it's going to be be difficult to build a big pot relative to our stacks unless he also flops a goot hand (very unlikely) or is very loose/bad.

As played on the flop I like minraising here. SB donked into 2 players - unless he's b/3betting a set or 2pair or AA here he is folding - and we want to build this pot vs MP.

If we raise big then we give really bad odds to both players who may well be drawing - we are not scared of the fd as we boat up often enough altho it may well kill the action. A minraise here makes both villains make another decision and we are more than happy to shove this flop if we get raised by either player - I think a minraise makes their decision more tricky and so then they are more likely to make a mistake. Unless SB is very aggro or tends to only donk flops into pfr's with the goods then flat calling here is bad as we then let both players draw cheaply. If we are pretty sure SB is raising if we call then calling is good - if not then I think calling is bad and raising is much better - and I think this is a spot where minraising might be best of all.

bsball8806 · #5 11-26-2007, 12:24 PM

Raise PF- we are in position.

I like raising a little less than what you did on the flop. Flat calling sucks for several reasons:
1. It makes our hand look really suspicious, since we just flat called a bet and a re raise. I'm sure your opponents are going to be really suspicious about putting more money in the pot if you had played it this way.
2. Any A, 9, or club is a really bad card for your hand.

I guess you could make an argument in favor of trapping MP, and just calling. If SB pushes over top with his club/straight/combo/TP/2pr whatever hand, MP may shove also if he thinks you have a draw and can be pushed off. I doubt he's folding AA (maybe AK) to this guy's push.