My Thoughts on Poker (long but good)

[futuredoc85]

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I haven't bumped this in a while so Here I go Again (BTW Whitesnake Pwns). This will be a bit more advanced than my previous posts so I hope it generates some good discussion.

Anyways I was talking to unarmed about this hand where I folded a set. Here it is.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $3/$6 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $282.60
BB: $642.00
Hero (UTG): $1,042.75
MP: $468.20
CO: $88.85
BTN: $1,737.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $24.00</font>, 2 folds, BTN calls $24.00, SB folds, BB calls $18.00

Flop: ($75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $54.00</font>, BTN calls $54.00, BB folds

Turn: ($183) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $114.00</font>, Hero calls $114.00

River: ($411) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $300.00</font>, Hero folds

Pot Size: $711.00 ($3 Rake)

This was a good fold by me, villain will vbet worse sometimes but more often than not I'm beat so I folded. However one thing I noted is shania doesn't like this fold.

For those of you who do not know what shania is basically it is metagame. The idea behind it is if there were three scenarios.

Scenario A: you only play AA
Scenario B: You only play AA and 23o
Scenario C: You play 100% of hands

In scenario C you will make the most money with pocket aces because your range is much wider and more often you will have weaker holdings.

Anyways the reason why Shania does not like this fold is because 55 is basically the top of my range so if I'm folding here it makes villain's bluff profitable with 100% of his range. However this is completely irrelevant.

Now you might be asking why did I spend 2 paragraphs on something and than say that its irrelevant but it actually is very important.

Too often 2p2ers overemphasize Shania and stuff like that and justify suboptimal plays because of it but that is a huge mistake. The thing is poker is the goal is only to make as much money as possible. So even if you are playing an exploitable style that is not game theory optimal it does not matter. Because the goal of poker is not playing game theory correct it is to make money.

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i like your fold given river check, but i think b/f is a viable rive line as well given stacks are deep enough for it and most ppl wont bluff-shove this river on you ever, but will check behind some hands that call a bet.

[Eagles]

Futuredoc,
I agree b/f is fine and against a lot of villains I would but against this particular villain we hadn't tangled very much and hes tighter than most.

[AMT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I haven't bumped this in a while so Here I go Again (BTW Whitesnake Pwns). This will be a bit more advanced than my previous posts so I hope it generates some good discussion.

Anyways I was talking to unarmed about this hand where I folded a set. Here it is.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $3/$6 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $282.60
BB: $642.00
Hero (UTG): $1,042.75
MP: $468.20
CO: $88.85
BTN: $1,737.35

Preflop: Hero is dealt 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $24.00</font>, 2 folds, BTN calls $24.00, SB folds, BB calls $18.00

Flop: ($75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $54.00</font>, BTN calls $54.00, BB folds

Turn: ($183) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $114.00</font>, Hero calls $114.00

River: ($411) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $300.00</font>, Hero folds

Pot Size: $711.00 ($3 Rake)

This was a good fold by me, villain will vbet worse sometimes but more often than not I'm beat so I folded. However one thing I noted is shania doesn't like this fold.

For those of you who do not know what shania is basically it is metagame. The idea behind it is if there were three scenarios.

Scenario A: you only play AA
Scenario B: You only play AA and 23o
Scenario C: You play 100% of hands

In scenario C you will make the most money with pocket aces because your range is much wider and more often you will have weaker holdings.

Anyways the reason why Shania does not like this fold is because 55 is basically the top of my range so if I'm folding here it makes villain's bluff profitable with 100% of his range. However this is completely irrelevant.

Now you might be asking why did I spend 2 paragraphs on something and than say that its irrelevant but it actually is very important.

Too often 2p2ers overemphasize Shania and stuff like that and justify suboptimal plays because of it but that is a huge mistake. The thing is poker is the goal is only to make as much money as possible. So even if you are playing an exploitable style that is not game theory optimal it does not matter. Because the goal of poker is not playing game theory correct it is to make money.

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Reminds me of the situation where some idiot calls you without set odds, then it's obvious he has a set. You can't just go broke on principle because ZOMG he called without set odds.

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this makes sense and also annoys me but often it comes down to the villain already having made a big enough mistake that yours is a minimal one in comparison and at that point in the hand is the appropriate play regardless of being able to put a set heavily in his range (aka when the odds just get too hefty and you realize how the hand played out in the villains error but doesnt necessarily make folding right yet with certain holdings)


eagles,

good post, do you fold 888 as well?

[homnig]

awesome

[Eagles]

Okay so I'm bumping this because of that vers blackize drama in the STTF censored thread.

Basically they got into a discussion about leaks. and I posted
Not being a dick but basically all sng players playing below the 215s have very big leaks.

In response to this ditch digger wrote
Making huge generalizations like this makes you look really dumb.

Now I disagree because I think that basically every poker player in the world has big leaks. Even amazing players like Jman and durrr and aba probably have pretty big leaks in their tournament game. To the same degree people like Bigjoe probably have pretty big leaks in their cashgames. Even talking about specific games like sngs or cashgames. Those guys are all incredible but they still have leaks i.e. they do not play perfectly.

The size of these leaks vary greatly but the smaller the leaks are the harder they are to plug. An example is if someone learned how to skate originally it would take them like a minute to skate 10 meters. As they got better it would increase significantly until they could do it in a second. But to move from 1 second to 0.95 seconds would take a ton of work and it would be very difficult.

The point I'm making is that everyone has leaks so their is no point in acting like you do not have them. Instead everyone should constantly work on improving their game and plugging their leaks. Instead of worrying stuff like variance, bad players running hot and making lots of money, etc.. just worry about your game, your decisions and put yourself in the best position to make as much money as possible.