in over my head

[DeeJ]

I think this depends on the TAG. AT/A9 is probably the borderline for me, but if he's more agressive I will stoop to lower aces headsup. KQx is a pretty lousy flop and I'd probably fold A7 here against most TAGs and move on.

If you didn't want to give up then you could check-raise the flop which could reduce the price of getting to showdown.

[ALL1N]

Assuming x<7 and a rb flop, I would c/c. Definitely don't 3-bet preflop FWIW.

[vmacosta]

[ QUOTE ]
Definitely don't 3-bet preflop FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you say that with a lot of authority and from what I've heard you are a very successful player, so there must be something I am missing. What is your cutoff for 3-betting Ax here and why?

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Definitely don't 3-bet preflop FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you say that with a lot of authority and from what I've heard you are a very successful player, so there must be something I am missing. What is your cutoff for 3-betting Ax here and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unimproved postflop, with A7o and the lead, you'll rarely be getting better hands to fold or worse hands to call (incorrectly), meaning that if you reraise preflop it's got to be for value. Your equity with A7o vs a button opening range is around 52-53%, which generally isn't a big enough edge to push for value.


You know how when you're on the turn/river you need well above 50% equity to raise purely for value (67% when they're always reraising correctly and never folding)? The same applies preflop, in that you need well above 50% to reraise for value because you re-open the betting (the fact that he/she may delay reraising better hands by opting not to cap is meaningless if we're going to autobet the flop anyway).


So basically I'm saying the nature of A7o is that reraising = value raise, not a bluff, and that A7o isn't strong enough to value raise.


Of course if you had QJs, hand with similar equity vs a button opening range, the benefit of taking the lead is that you'll frequently bluff out better hands postflop.


In answer to which Ax I'd 3-bet, I'd only do it if I felt that the value was there - my test is whether I'd be able to correctly value bet the river unimproved much. So probably AQ/AJ (which are around 60% equity in this spot), but if the opponent doesn't check behind the flop much, then I'll tend to call these hands preflop anyway.

[piggity]

[ QUOTE ]
In answer to which Ax I'd 3-bet, I'd only do it if I felt that the value was there - my test is whether I'd be able to correctly value bet the river unimproved much. So probably AQ/AJ (which are around 60% equity in this spot), but if the opponent doesn't check behind the flop much, then I'll tend to call these hands preflop anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I actually feel like I'm in over my head. Not 3-betting A9/AT+ here (as the default) will sound heretic to many, I would guess.

[HOWMANY]

fwiw for offsoot hands I 3bet AQ/AK 95%+, AJ prob 80% (depends a ton on what kind of game), AT prob 40-60% (again depends on type of game) and A9 or worse very rarely. I 3bet the same kind of people with A7 that I would 3bet with A9.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Definitely don't 3-bet preflop FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you say that with a lot of authority and from what I've heard you are a very successful player, so there must be something I am missing. What is your cutoff for 3-betting Ax here and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unimproved postflop, with A7o and the lead, you'll rarely be getting better hands to fold or worse hands to call (incorrectly), meaning that if you reraise preflop it's got to be for value. Your equity with A7o vs a button opening range is around 52-53%, which generally isn't a big enough edge to push for value.


You know how when you're on the turn/river you need well above 50% equity to raise purely for value (67% when they're always reraising correctly and never folding)? The same applies preflop, in that you need well above 50% to reraise for value because you re-open the betting (the fact that he/she may delay reraising better hands by opting not to cap is meaningless if we're going to autobet the flop anyway).


So basically I'm saying the nature of A7o is that reraising = value raise, not a bluff, and that A7o isn't strong enough to value raise.


Of course if you had QJs, hand with similar equity vs a button opening range, the benefit of taking the lead is that you'll frequently bluff out better hands postflop.


In answer to which Ax I'd 3-bet, I'd only do it if I felt that the value was there - my test is whether I'd be able to correctly value bet the river unimproved much. So probably AQ/AJ (which are around 60% equity in this spot), but if the opponent doesn't check behind the flop much, then I'll tend to call these hands preflop anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the best posts I've seen on here in a long time minus the fact that I really don't want my opponents understanding this.

Keeping pots small when out of position is a very important concept most up and coming players don't fully understand, partially probably because they haven't played enough of them vs tough opponents who will fully take advantage of their positional advantage.

They have been beating games because while it's a mistake, many of their opponents are making the same mistake plus many other larger mistakes. I really feel like it's one of the main things holding a lot of otherwise good players back.

[Bill Haverchuck]

[ QUOTE ]


Unimproved postflop, with A7o and the lead, you'll rarely be getting better hands to fold or worse hands to call (incorrectly), meaning that if you reraise preflop it's got to be for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't a major factor in taking the lead that you bet/drag instead of c/f way more often when neither of you improve?