AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[_Gabe_]

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Nat,

The most likely scenario by far is that management and ownership of Absolute was aware and/or involved of this stuff going on. Yet, even after having the cheating pointed out, they continued to deny until proof was accidentally leaked.

They are obviously not going to admit that they are a completely dirty organization that has been systematically cheating their users for a long time. Given what is KNOWN to have been done by key members of the organization, followed by the web of lies they have spun to try and cover things up, anyone accepting their current explanations is a real sucker. It's also naive to think other forms of cheating/stealing have not occurred in the past.

[/ QUOTE ]i imagine they all knew what each other was up to, but how does one "dobb" the boss in if doing so will lose you your very lucrative job. kanhawake seem to be there just to collect their payments and have/had no real intention or power to police the sites that they gave their laughable seal of approval to. the big two should be worrying a little about this association right now!! STARS/FULL TILT

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Has any major operator released a statement yet regarding this situation? I haven't seen anything.

If they have not I think it is a little bit disturbing. Is it possible that AP has dirt on other poker companies and they are afraid to come out with a stance against them? Or is it more likely that all the major sites just want this all to go away?

[adanthar]

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Are any of the respected poker sites distancing themselves from the Kahnawake Gaming Commission, which apparently has not revoked Absolute's license? If not, why not?

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1) Kawanahke now actually *has* a "gaming commission", which bodes well for the future;

2)No one else in the gaming license business has a "gaming commission" anywhere near as robust as the KGC does right this second (ie, existing);

3)The KGC also controls the server farm, a very big deal;

4)The market, in the form of the people who keep playing at AP (not to mention every other KGC-branded site), has largely spoken, and the verdict so far turns out to be "nobody cares".

[zen_rounder]

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El D,

Do you notice the correlation between registration date on 2+2 and enthusiasm for getting AP banned from the entire world?

I guess it's something you have to see a few times.

Edit: That's not to say people should give up, just that those who have "seen it all before" likely haven't got the energy anymore.

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I guess we can ignore the fact that registration date often doesn't correlate with how long someone has been playing poker online or posting on this site.

[/ QUOTE ]reading threads for a few months.decided to join at time of AP scandal (ish) been playing poker for 4 years. usually to lazy to get involved..this story spurred me on. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] i think what nat anda ect are doing is amazing and much needed. [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[adanthar]

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If they have not I think it is a little bit disturbing. Is it possible that AP has dirt on other poker companies and they are afraid to come out with a stance against them? Or is it more likely that all the major sites just want this all to go away?

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Other than small time ops like Pokershare releasing anti-AP ads, what would you want, say, Stars to do here? Stars is unquestionably the public leader in integrity in this business. They also have a KGC license and aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot by bringing this up publicly when the next question they'll be asked is 'why do you have a KGC license?' To them, it's understandably better to keep their mouth shut.

Everyone else either also has a KGC license or a license from an outfit much worse than the KGC. The lone exception might be WSEX because the Antiguans, I hear, do have some kind of integrity verifying thing going on, but nobody cares about them or plays there so what's the point?

[apefish]

Anthar for mod.

[pygmyhipo]

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You can bet on the fact that each site has backup servers elsewhere. Access may be a bit slower, but they are there.

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Have the technical savvy and strategic foresight of Absolute Poker been that impressive to date? I think there is a good chance there is no "warm standby" ready to go, just magnetic tape nightly backups.

-pyg

[styleXX]

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mb,

"I'm really suprised at your view of this situation."

It's just reality. Where is CardPlayer in this? Where is Two Plus Two Publishing? The silence is deafening. It's a big money industry and it doesn't look like anyone with a voice and reach that matters is going to step up. When it's all said and done, it all comes down to money. And there's no money for those players in going after Absolute.

"Your passive approach to the situation is exactly what is going to lead to the outcome you predict. I would think that this is actually a subject you'd be quite interested in uncovering."

I'm not in the poker industry. I'm not an investigative journalist. I have an inherent dislike of cheaters and thieves, but I'm not going to spend any energy in actually fighting this fight, nor do I have any responsibility to do so. There are many people who make their living off of the poker community. I think those people have a responsibility (to a degree at least) to poker players to get rid of players like Absolute in the industry, or at least bring awareness to situations like this. But knowing how the money flows, I doubt that'll happen.

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Just went to CardPlayer.COM: NO MENTION WHAT SO EVER OF THE AP SCANDAL! but there was a big "Absolute Poker Banner" with jackpot info on the front page. like i said 98% of poker players don't read forums and most of the ones that do don't care! they always figured online poker was rigged anyway.

[augie_]

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Nat,

The most likely scenario by far is that management and ownership of Absolute was aware and/or involved of this stuff going on. Yet, even after having the cheating pointed out, they continued to deny until proof was accidentally leaked.

They are obviously not going to admit that they are a completely dirty organization that has been systematically cheating their users for a long time. Given what is KNOWN to have been done by key members of the organization, followed by the web of lies they have spun to try and cover things up, anyone accepting their current explanations is a real sucker. It's also naive to think other forms of cheating/stealing have not occurred in the past.

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phew. glad i'm not the only one who thinks absolute is behind the whole thing and it's nothing but a rogue, rigged site.

[CITIZEN_114]

nice post, phill. Some good idea's in there.

[Tzadik]

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Basically, they are trying to make this fade away in a very controlled and managed fashion.

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FYP. The final outcome is yet to be determined. It's their move at the moment.

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There's a few things we can do if AP doesn't go all the way with their disclosure.

- Harass AP affiliates, blacklist them, refuse to give business to anyone who deals with AP. Loss of affiliate traffic is definitely going to hurt AP.
- We can ask poker software makers (PT, PA, HM, PO) to remove AP support from their products.
- We can have organized teams that let AP players know about the scandal at the tables.
- We can push for more involvement of other poker sites, including pressure on KGC.
- We can get this in the media again if AP continues to feed us nonsense, and insiders are willing to release their information.
- We can talk to everyone we know about the scandal.

I'm sure there's more. That's just off the top of my head, and only includes the ethical side of things.

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Yea, there's a fair amount that can be done here. I have a number of resources at my disposal to get the word out in addition to the power of 2p2.

I am trying to be fair and give them some time to sort through the data. I know it's a PR ploy on their part in some ways, but I actually do believe that it takes decent amount of time to get through everything.

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The problem with the first few protest steps that we are small fish in the pond. So while AP won't be happy about leaving them or UB, it won't really scare them either. Besides those of us who played on the high stakes game already stoped playing there long time ago, and those of us who decided that even tho AP is a good place to play at (because it has lot of fishes, some of us liked the software, etc.) already stoped playing as well. Those who stayed will not gonna leave just to protest because they decided that because of the +EV, etc. AP is still a nice place to play at even tho it's somewhat risky and because AP is rotten (not exactly hones that is), etc.
Banning their affilates I don't think would work either. Let's say we would find out that AP is advertising on P2P then you would stop post here? And again we aren't enough big to be a real threat.
As with releasing more information if AP still feeding BS is somewhat better, but besides hurting AP it would hurt the industry as most of the public only would conclude that the hole online gambling is rotten. Besides we wouldn't achieve with this our real goals, having better protection and regulation.
And most importantly most of the players on the mid down limits simple aren't us (eg. not reading this forum or following the news of the scandal). If U log in to AP you will see that it's business as usual.
I think the only viable option would be that sort of "blackmail" AP and KGC that those of us who has will release more sensitive information if our demands aren't met. These demands could be setting up a commission for example, who will monitor the investigation of the cheating plus who potentially will still have monitoring access to KGC's operations. This committe could be composed of well known and trusted people of the industry (Malmuth, Sklanksky, Negreanu, well known security experts, programmers, etc.)
Something similar was actually promised by AP people as far as I know but then apperantly was quickly forgotten as so many else they said...