AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[McSeafield]

After reading these various threads from the beginning and some background information I just made my own conclusion. I just put two plus two together and get four. The picture I have is pretty ugly and it looks like a criminal case with larger proportions where normal auditors with limited scope of engagement have only little chance to get a final result and a overall picture. I think it's time that other guys (perhaps Interpol/FBI) should start an investigation.

I do not trust Absolute Poker any longer. It looks like a washout and there is no transparency at all. A nice tinkered storefront with a lot of promise for noncritical poker players.

I stop reading these threads, whatever comes out, it will only be part of the truth. I hope that the whole situation in Kahnawake will be cleaned up. It is time for a change and a lot of steps into the right direction. And this is certainly not only an Absolute problem. It is a problem for the whole poker community and especially the other poker sites which do not participate in the public discussion. I think they know why.

[woodguy]

Can a mod fix the OMFG pic, its totally screwing up the viewability of this thread.

[FoxInTheHenHouse]

It would be a very good time for Doyles Room to come out with a statement verifying that safeguards have been installed into their system to ensure that nothing like this can happen there.

Since they just announced a return to allowing American players back in, they could pick up the players as they cut loose from AP.

Very opportune timing indeed for the smart operator....

[MoeJ]

If anybody bought the popcorn, and suspects it's fraud, you can go to: http://ag.state.nv.us/org/bcp/complaint.htm

They have a complaint form you can download, if you choose.

*shrug*

Dunno if anybody wants to do anything, but it may be the only way to see any punishments meted out in the US.

It'd be kind of funny if, after ripping millions of dollars (presumedly), they got nailed over a lousy $10K.

[Blixx]

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Quote - The KGC was set up by Norton. It did nothing while players were cheated.

One of the detectives here called the KGC and reported that he was pleasantly surprised by how seriously they seemed to take his report of cheating. He said they not only asked many questions but asked the RIGHT questions. Soon after that the KGC ordered an independent investigation.

I am not aware of a single instance of misbehavior attributed to the KGC other than they permit gambling on their reservation, contrary to the view of the government of Canada. The Kahwanake point out that they are an independent nation, pursuant to an agreement with the French surrounding them in the seventeenth century, and can permit or not permit gambling on their own land, no matter what Canada thinks about it.

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While this is encouraging I still think the connections between the KGC, Norton and Absolute are way too close to ever give me confidence in their investigation.

I will be contacting other sites I play on that have their gaming license with the KGC (Stars/ FTP mainly) and let them know I feel their association with KGC forces me to question the integrity & security of their games. I think the best chance of getting the KGC to take serious action against AP is if they know their other member sites are watching closely.

I've only read about 10% of all the posts on this, but incredible work by everyone involved in sorting out what really happened.

[pokerstudAA]

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Re: 'You_know_who'

Looks like a troll/AP spammer:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...2&fpart=all

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I don't understand the context of this post (or why it was made well after You_know_who came and went)

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The guy who made the post on P5s saying he sent out the spreadsheet is the same guy -- confirmed.

I know a little more about him, but I'm not sure what I can say right now...

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Any chance we can get this guy to tell his story? I am sure he know quite alot of details regarding what went on at Absolute.

[burningyen]

There are a few possible reasons why the various name pros and Absolute's competitors haven't made any public statements on the scandal:

1) Housecleaning. Stars, FTP, etc. have been busy double-checking and shoring up their internal safeguards with respect to superuser accounts.

2) Conflict of interest. Criticism by a competitor looks less credible than criticism by an independent third party.

3) Tar baby dilemma. If Stars, FTP, etc. speak out against Absolute, they might get drawn into a mudslinging contest where no one looks clean.

So don't hold your breath for someone like Fossilman to make a statement.

[zen_rounder]

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Ike,

I didn't mean to be a dick. Just wanted to point out that your decision to not go back might be easier and prove more correct if you consider that just as many fish as sharks are going to leave because of this scandal. If not a greater percentage.

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you are assuming that this info is equally distributed among players, this is obv not true.

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What percentage of 5-10+ players do you think will be unaware of the situation in a month? I would say 25% of them not knowing would be generous.

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well considering I'm looking at who is playing 5/10+ right now and its all fish, I'm thinking youre wrong

[/ QUOTE ]you win 500k per year, so technically compared to yourself most people are gonna be fish.your obv way above the average player and prob even most good players.for you i imagine there will be fish everywhere [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] you just need the 200bb structure games available on other sites

[McSeafield]

My own assessment of some questions were as follows:

Was the KGC set up by Joe Norton? No, it was the Mohawk Warrior Society and done by assistance of a lawyer. Frank Cantania is his name. He is now eCOGRA board member and has written the following report on his Kahnawake engagement. I think it would be interessting to figure why the KGC Gaming Regulations have been altered during the last couple of days.

Is the KGC a trustworthy organization? Up to now, it was considered as a joke ("a rubber stamp" or "fraud") and this link is already stickied in the Zoo FAQ - What it all appears to mean. In order to get an unterstanding of the situation in Kahnawake I think one has be very careful and to know a lot. Perhaps this and this link lead to some additional background information but certainly not to a complete picture.

Does Joe Norton real own Absolute Poker? Yes, on the paper, but I doubt that he is the real owner.

Is Joe Norton a reliable person? Yes, I guess. He is used to act like a trustworthy figurehead.

[mother_brain]

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Since we have the 19+ requisite posts it apparently takes to post a defence of someone’s character, we would like to echo Rothko’s comments that Fred Roman has nothing to clear in regard his name.
He has not worked at AP for nigh on a year and, with all due respect to Fred, was never in a position where he would have been privy to the shenanigans that have (allegedly) been going on at AP. We support and encourage 2+2ers to name and shame only those they have firm evidence on to avoid diluting the issue/investigation with needless red herrings.

RTR

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I believe that these exact sentiments were echoed by AP about Scott Tom in some of their early press releases.

I dont know anything about Fred. But I think the primary reason this thread has turned into a "witch hunt" is that now AP has a virtual monopoly on all solid evidence of what actually happened. Since they have proven to have no credibility we are left to speculate.

My personal opinion is that being paranoid about anybody ever associated with AP is the most logical thing to do now.

That is what AP has truly lost in this situation. None of these people will ever be viewed as completely clean after this situation. Such is the risk one takes when associating with an unethical company. It doesn't matter if the person is innocent or not.