|
|
#1
09-25-2007, 08:46 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Stars 1k spot, board goes to hell
Villain is 26/11/8 over 54 hands. Seems kinda loosish. On river i lose to flush, Jack, Ace, 9T. Basically everything but him turning a smaller pair into a bluff. Standard stuff here?
Poker Stars No Limit Holdem Tournament Blinds: t25/t50 9 players Converter Stack sizes: Hero: t2628 UTG+1: t3305 MP1: t3805 MP2: t2808 MP3: t4605 CO: t4341 Button: t3004 SB: t3249 BB: t3195 Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t150</font>, UTG+1 calls t150 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t225)</font>, 7 folds. Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t375, 2 players) <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t250</font>, UTG+1 calls t250 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t625)</font>. Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t875, 2 players) Hero checks, UTG+1 checks. River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t875, 2 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets t550</font>, Hero folds. Uncalled bets: t550 returned to UTG+1. Results: Final pot: t875 
|
|
#2
09-25-2007, 08:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Stars 1k spot, board goes to hell
[ QUOTE ]
On river i lose to flush, Jack, Ace, 9T. Basically everything but him turning a smaller pair into a bluff. Standard stuff here? [/ QUOTE ] True, but you also checked the last two streets and villain can't check his trash because you win in a showdown.
|
|
#3
09-25-2007, 08:56 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Stars 1k spot, board goes to hell
Right, that's why i'm a bit concerned here Woodguy. Like my line looks really sick weak, though i'm not sure what other line i can really take. Blocking bet the river????
|
|
#4
09-25-2007, 08:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Stars 1k spot, board goes to hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] On river i lose to flush, Jack, Ace, 9T. Basically everything but him turning a smaller pair into a bluff. Standard stuff here? [/ QUOTE ] True, but you also checked the last two streets and villain can't check his trash because you win in a showdown. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this, the double check is an open invitation to bet, which means you have no clue what he has, which means you have to call. This could be a bluff, a value bet with a worse hand, or a value bet with a better hand, no way to know.
|
|
#6
09-25-2007, 09:45 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Stars 1k spot, board goes to hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] On river i lose to flush, Jack, Ace, 9T. Basically everything but him turning a smaller pair into a bluff. Standard stuff here? [/ QUOTE ] True, but you also checked the last two streets and villain can't check his trash because you win in a showdown. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this, the double check is an open invitation to bet, which means you have no clue what he has, which means you have to call. This could be a bluff, a value bet with a worse hand, or a value bet with a better hand, no way to know. [/ QUOTE ] The "way to know" is called hand reading. In such a case, hand reading dictates that there are absolutely no hands that we beat, therefore we... fold.
|
|
#8
09-25-2007, 10:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Stars 1k spot, board goes to hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] On river i lose to flush, Jack, Ace, 9T. Basically everything but him turning a smaller pair into a bluff. Standard stuff here? [/ QUOTE ] True, but you also checked the last two streets and villain can't check his trash because you win in a showdown. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with this, the double check is an open invitation to bet, which means you have no clue what he has, which means you have to call. This could be a bluff, a value bet with a worse hand, or a value bet with a better hand, no way to know. [/ QUOTE ] The "way to know" is called hand reading. In such a case, hand reading dictates that there are absolutely no hands that we beat, therefore we... fold. [/ QUOTE ] Is there something that you would recommend I read that would teach me this thing you call "hand reading"? Was there anything in my post that prompted such a sarcastic response? Calling a raise pre, calling a c-bet and then betting after a double check doesn't scream, at least to a player of my limited ability, monster hand. Surely you would agree with this in general. Maybe the texture of the board, in combination with an otherwise unremarkable betting pattern, leads you to conclude that we must be beat, and that conclusion is not unreasonable. IMO, I think TT and 99 could be played this way. Much less likely, but still possible, an underpair to the board. The A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] makes a flush somewhat less likely, since it would mean that Villain called preflop and then on a paired board with a non-nut flush draw.
|
|
#9
09-25-2007, 10:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Stars 1k spot, board goes to hell
Todd,
I used to be really terrible at hand reading. I'm still pretty meh. I've found what helps is to try and slow down while your in a hand and just ask yourself "what hands would villain play this way? What's his motivation/what is he trying to accomplish?" Now just do it every time you play a hand post flop that isn't super standard and ask yourself those questions each street. I know its bland, but it helps.
|
|
#10
09-25-2007, 10:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Stars 1k spot, board goes to hell
[ QUOTE ]
Is there something that you would recommend I read that would teach me this thing you call "hand reading"? [/ QUOTE ] No, actually. [ QUOTE ] Was there anything in my post that prompted such a sarcastic response? [/ QUOTE ] Nope, its my fault not yours. [ QUOTE ] Calling a raise pre, calling a c-bet and then betting after a double check doesn't scream, at least to a player of my limited ability, monster hand. [/ QUOTE ] Well. That depends on the board. You are reading his line w/o even looking at the board and what hand he is "representing." If you want a lesson on hand reading, start by looking at his range after his flop call, and assess what % of that he bets the river with, and what% of that we beat. [ QUOTE ] IMO, I think TT and 99 could be played this way. [/ QUOTE ] What hand could TT posibly get value from? You realize betting this river w/ TT is a bluff, right? [ QUOTE ] Much less likely, but still possible, an underpair to the board. [/ QUOTE ] Something like 44 is a HELL of a lot more likely than TT, because 44 folds out a ton of better hands, whereas TT has more showdown value and folds out less hands which beat it. [ QUOTE ] The A makes a flush somewhat less likely, since it would mean that Villain called preflop and then on a paired board with a non-nut flush draw. [/ QUOTE ] Why should he fold the flop w/ any flush draw? (he shouldn't)
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
