A tough one against Marcel

[AragornX151]

If this is like the 20-40 games over the weekend at the Borgata, 3-betting preflop is definitely the wrong play. The value in that game isn't from raising, reraising, and getting the pots heads up (good luck with that), but from seeing flops and outplaying the poor players (of which the table is mostly comprised). I'd reraise here with TT+ and AQ+, but otherwise just call. KJs out of positon against a raiser and what's almost assuredly going to be several other opponents isn't what I'm looking for; I have no interest in "taking control" of this hand. I'm looking to hit something on the flop and value bet it.

Another negative with 3-betting is it makes the fish play much more closely to properly post-flop if they catch ANY piece, even if they had no business calling pre.

Finally, I don't know if I played with "Marcel," but a raise in the sb usually indicates something real. What that actually is is debatable, but he's unlikely to have crap. Anyway, pre is fine as played.

Flop and turn are fine too. Good flop for your hand, and the turn only hurts you if you're against T9 (obviously, you fold if raised on the turn).

River, I'd bet again. I think you're far from likely to be best, but it's +ev to bet here if you can fold to a raise (nobody I saw in those games is capable of bluff raising the river with other active opponents; normally an awful move anyway). Definitely disagree that someone is "unlikely" to have a flush draw because nobody raised in a multi-way pot, though. Most of the players I was sitting with were just calling their draws a high % of the time.

nh. I'd wager money someone had JT...

[rafiki]

good post

[ssmallz]

One more reason not to 3 bet pf is that you want a bet coming from your right in a pot like this so you can make the 2 other limper call 2 cold. The way I see it, 3betting pf is unlikely to eliminate most donkeys while calling 2 cold on the flop might. On top of that KJs just isn't a very good hand here once marcel raises. There is no reason do anything other than see the flop as cheaply as possible.

Bet the river, take em to value town and let them call. They want to call, they need to call, so by all means, let them do what they want to do.

[BK1248]

in live games i bet with top and middle pairs until someone tells me to stop

[AragornX151]

BTW, if my KJ was unsuited, I don't mind a preflop fold there. If you call, be sure you don't get wedded to your hand if you flop top pair. Board-dependent but in those kinds of games, a KT8 flop can wind up losing you a lot of money if you don't listen to what your opponent is telling you.

[benwood]

I like betting the river,but I don't feel like I 'm a strong candidate to win it.

If you're going to call it anyway, the b/f is better than the c/c.

[jkamowitz]

Thanks for the replies,

I bet the river obviously and both limpers folded? Marcel called and turned over black AA. I knew there was something strange going on. But I guess it was a read situation.

[AragornX151]

That's an oddly played pair of aces. For the same reason I bet in your spot, I certainly bet my AA until met with resistance. If raised on turn, I consider mucking based on opponent against that many players.

[AlexSem]

If 3-betting flop is not going to eliminate the limpers, you shouldn't do it and I take my suggestion back.

Is that how good the games are though? Wow...

[ActionBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he's easily in the top 10 of the 20/40 players at the Borg as is evident by the fact he's still there after years and years.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's numerous regulars and semi-regulars in the 40-80 there who are still there and just as bad as they were 10 or 12 years ago.

-ActionBob